Which of PC/JS's Trades Was The Worst?

[Hawktawk]

The Graham trade was a head scratcher . But even with the lack of chemistry with Russ he did set single season tight end record here . I wonder what Russ thought about waking up to that trade . Although Unger was a 1-b. Center . It wasn’t like losing Hutch . I recall an NFL executive talking about super bowl 48. He remarked on how well Russell had played in spite of terrible line play in the game. He tore into Unger saying he had a “ big name” but got abused . Lynch was held to 38 yards with at least 20 coming on one carry. As well as the defense played Russell and even Percy Harvin who was huge in the game were bigger factors in our championship than Unger . Russ turned in one of the more efficient games by any QB not named MVP of the game . If winning the world championship is your goal Harvin worked out . I saw Graham as a push . We won some games on plays he made . Saints won games because of Ungers blocks I’m sure . Neither won it all. Harvin won it all. Adams I fear will never win it all

[NorthHawk]

The Graham trade was a head scratcher . But even with the lack of chemistry with Russ he did set single season tight end record here . I wonder what Russ thought about waking up to that trade . Although Unger was a 1-b. Center . It wasn’t like losing Hutch . I recall an NFL executive talking about super bowl 48. He remarked on how well Russell had played in spite of terrible line play in the game. He tore into Unger saying he had a “ big name” but got abused . Lynch was held to 38 yards with at least 20 coming on one carry. As well as the defense played Russell and even Percy Harvin who was huge in the game were bigger factors in our championship than Unger . Russ turned in one of the more efficient games by any QB not named MVP of the game . If winning the world championship is your goal Harvin worked out . I saw Graham as a push . We won some games on plays he made . Saints won games because of Ungers blocks I’m sure . Neither won it all. Harvin won it all. Adams I fear will never win it all

I think you devalue what a good Center brings to an OL. We've seen the results since he left and our continuing problems up the middle in both the run game and pass protection.
Even though that trade wasn't the worst, it was pretty bad as there was no successor plan in place when giving up a Pro Bowl player. And 6 or so years later it still isn't fixed.

[tarlhawk]

I think you devalue what a good Center brings to an OL. We've seen the results since he left and our continuing problems up the middle in both the run game and pass protection.
Even though that trade wasn't the worst, it was pretty bad as there was no successor plan in place when giving up a Pro Bowl player. And 6 or so years later it still isn't fixed.

Excellent points. The Center is 2nd only to the LT in importance. He has the best view of the Def lines alignment and last minute recognized stunts/blitzes...and can communicate this along his O-Line team mates. His biggest aid is opponents line play recognition...his recognition of where to anticipate an imminent blitz is a big aid in setting pass protection and keeps the QB from having to take time to reset his own pass protection which can run down a play clock for a penalty or stall a fast tempo play call. The center is key to keeping interior pass rush from collapsing the pocket too easily/early.

The no successor plan was a result of the trade being "sprung" unexpectedly during a call to the Saints GM on a different subject by John Schneider. The Saints GM had extended Grahm's contract in bitter negotiations over Jimmy G. not being used as a "real TE" but more like a tall (outside receiver) which would demand higher pay scale. Jimmy represented a Red Zone weapon not currently available in RW's arsenal. Their GM insisted on Unger.

[NorthHawk]

How many Centers have they passed by in the last 6 or so drafts?
My guess is probably 15 or 20 capable of improving what we have had during that stretch.

[Oly]

Their x's and o's logic was sound on Adams. He was a top 5 draft pick safety who is an amazing strong safety on par with Kam Chancellor. He was a Pro Bowler, young in his first contract, not known to be a locker room cancer, and willing to lay it all on the line to win. He's a Seahawk type of player.

My big problem is Pete and John seem to still be of the mindset we're one or two players away from a Super Bowl. We're not. They have been letting the team degrade too much over the years, missing too many picks, and not developing young talent either because the talent is bad or their coaching staff isn't good at development.

If they had picked up Jamal Adams after they rebuilt the defensive line, I think he would be an amazing addition. But you got no defense if you have no defensive line. You're going to get pushed around and your LBs and secondary are going to have to try to bat clean up. And that wears them down and sets them up for injury. I think all the pass rushing last year hurt Jamal's shoulder. Safeties should not be rushing the passer that much period. They aren't big enough to survive the scrum at the lines.

Percy was an unnecessary luxury. We were already an amazing defensive unit with enough offense to win.

Graham the same. Pete kept talking about TD makers. We were scoring enough TDs.

Our defense was lights out when we picked up Percy and Graham. We could have easily gotten by developing a run blocking TE who was an occasional pass threat.

To simplify, Adams is a real and committed building block for a defense. Harvin and Graham were just luxury picks Pete picked up like buying a Ferrari as a billionaire when you already own a Bugati and a Lamborghini.

I voted Adams, but you make some good points about luxury vs. need. I'll still offer a defense of my pick, but I'm not sure I believe it.

I interpreted the question as "which trade will, in the grand scheme of things, hurt the Hawks the most?" The two most important parts of roster building are to have an elite QB and to have elite players on rookie contracts. If the Hawks had done well this year and the pick would be in the 20s somewhere, then I'd have voted for Graham because of the loss of Unger. But losing out on a top-5 player on a rookie contract is the kind of decision that can do long-term damage to roster building.

Adding to that, I think the right safety in this defense is worth that kind of money, and that is the ball-hawking FS. If Adams could provide what Earl used to provide, then even the loss of the top-5 pick might be okay as it allows the team to get away with a cheap RCB and to drop a SS into the box. But it's clear to me that neither Pete nor KNJ know how to use Adams, so we have this player taking up huge amounts of cap space, costing a potentially elite player on a rookie contract, but who isn't a clear scheme fit.

I was actually really positive about the Adams trade when it happened, and if I interpreted the question as "which trade was the least defensible when it was made?" then I would have voted for Harvin or Graham. In theory, I have no problem giving up two firsts for an elite player who makes a unit run. Unfortunately, that's not how things have panned out...so far. As you noted, there is still time for the team to figure out how to get value out of Adams, so perhaps my vote will change.

[trents]

The Graham trade may be a reflection of the low priority Pete and John place on the O line. Seems to me Pete and John are forever looking to add players at the so-called skill positions at the expense of the O line, which in my mind is neglecting the infrastructure.

[I-5]

Trents, I’d say not only are Pete and John enamored of players at the so-called ‘skill positions’ (always hated that term as if the other positione don’t need skill), they also are hyper focused on pass rushers. They just can’t pull the trigger if there is a stud offensive lineman or corner staring them in the face in the early rounds. Beyond me why they are like that.

[RiverDog]

The Graham trade may be a reflection of the low priority Pete and John place on the O line. Seems to me Pete and John are forever looking to add players at the so-called skill positions at the expense of the O line, which in my mind is neglecting the infrastructure.

You can strike the words "may be" and replace them with "is a".

[tarlhawk]

Trents, I’d say not only are Pete and John enamored of players at the so-called ‘skill positions’ (always hated that term as if the other positione don’t need skill), they also are hyper focused on pass rushers. They just can’t pull the trigger if there is a stud offensive lineman or corner staring them in the face in the early rounds. Beyond me why they are like that.

The CB/S reason is because Pete feels he and his coaches can instead take an athlete skilled at DB with certain measurables (defied by recent Reed/Tre Brown) and coach them to not give up the big play/minimize penalties. Measureables (length/long arms...speed and body control) are a result of JS having worked in the G.Bay organization.

O-Line because it has been targeted as the low cap money (beyond 2 players at best) and easier to coach up to be good enough for RW's play style. O-Line Coach very important under these restraints. Play makers vice skill players.