Bears Game

[NorthHawk]

I think he would have benefited from a stint in Bill Walsh’s system where he demanded
the timing be exact. The 3 steps and fire demands of that Offense would have given him
a different viewpoint on passing instead of waiting for receivers to get open. Even if it
was just for a few years.

[trents]

Well said, River. In optometrist terms, Russ is "far sighted". He doesn't see things well close up. He's always struggled with the dink and dunk trows. When he finally gives up on the deep covered receivers and goes to the outlet, the pass rushers are in his face such that he rushes the short throw and it's not in rhythm.

[Aseahawkfan]

We lost a game by one point we usually win. Not the end of the world. This is just a year where those close games went against and the roster degradation from bad roster management finally caught up with us.

If I'm the owner, I'm keeping Russ and the offensive receiving core and looking for a new GM and head coach that want to build a roster the way you're supposed to do it: through the draft, not through flashy trades. I haven't seen a single team that I can recall in NFL history build a good roster doing what Pete and John are doing right now with these trades for players like Harvin, Graham, Adams, Sheldon Richardson, and the like. If you're not building in the draft with high quality, team friendly free agency acquisitions and trades that mostly fly under the radar, you're not doing it right. Pete and John are not managing the team roster well.

If you're drafting and developing right, other teams want your players. That was how it was in Seattle when Pete and John first got here: other teams were picking up our players, not us trying to get players from other teams because we can't draft and develop our own. It used to be a thing to sign a Seattle CB to improve your defense. Or pick up a guy we got rid because he was good, but we had such a strong team that we had good players to spare. Now we are trying to take the old men, sign the injury problems, and desperately take off the rosters of other teams.

It all shows Pete and John have clearly not drafted and developed players as they did when they first arrived. They are managing the team and roster badly. So any new coach and Gm will need to analyze who is worth keeping and improve the roster and team management.

[tarlhawk]

Russell did the right things in handling the 49ers at a time where they were coming in "hot" and probably took us for granted. Russell was focused...confident and his timing was a result of being "locked in". We need "that" Russell consistently ...with that guy we win the close games...which rewards the defense for keeping a game close. Winning the close games is how elite QB's string together wins. Parity in the NFL has become quite real...which "explains the unexplainable" when a "bottom feeder" team beats a team "it should have no chance of winning against".

Nick Foles hardly represents your typical 3rd string NFL QB and his experience and quick decisions with the weather conditions kept them close enough to surprise the outcome. Time of possession once more raised its ugly head as we left our defense on the field way too long. As a Miami Dolphin fan I was used to how time of possession works in a ball control running dominant era (I was a fan of Miami starting in 1971) and on the contrary how it doesn't work on a Quick strike offense (Marino). Miami's Defense was much maligned and ranked low during Marino's peak years...it also accounted for many a 4th quarter rally by the opponent but Marino was popping 3-4 TD's in his prime with Duper and Clayton as his two play making WR's.

This season has become a "wash" and with lessons learned we can hope for a successful off season and everything is possible in 2022 with Russell restored to his normal self. You can't ignore how he did against the 49ers and say RW is washed up. He needs to slay his personal demons and return in 2022 back in business. Those are my opinions and why I can look forward to 2022 ...we need some extensions signed...a successful draft...and some key players returned in good health off of this years Injured Reserve.

[RiverDog]

If I'm the owner, I'm keeping Russ and the offensive receiving core and looking for a new GM and head coach that want to build a roster the way you're supposed to do it: through the draft, not through flashy trades.

I was of the opinion that I wanted Russell to stay if he wants to commit to rebuilding the franchise with a new coach/GM/staff and significant roster turnover, but after watching that game yesterday and reading/listening to a lot of subsequent commentary, I'm not so sure anymore. If we get an offer of multiple first round picks and a young, legitimate Pro Bowl quality player and Russell waives his no trade clause, I'm taking it. He's created more question marks about his performance and commitment to this team and I don't feel comfortable with him anymore. I don't want to see him play in a lame duck season then walk in free agency and leave us holding the bag.

Pete is done in my book. I had one foot off the bandwagon before the season started.

[tarlhawk]

We lost a game by one point we usually win. Not the end of the world. This is just a year where those close games went against and the roster degradation from bad roster management finally caught up with us.
If I'm the owner, I'm keeping Russ and the offensive receiving core and looking for a new GM and head coach that want to build a roster
It all shows Pete and John have clearly not drafted and developed players as they did when they first arrived. They are managing the team and roster badly. So any new coach and Gm will need to analyze who is worth keeping and improve the roster and team management.

Comparing apples to oranges is comparing the "early" drafts from the "current" drafts. One is not being totally honest to not know how the NFL enforces parity in its efforts to prevent dynasties and bottom feeders from being common. Our early drafts benefited from having a good core of players on the roster from the 8 year build-up under Mike Holmgren which Pete would parlay into a rebuilt younger roster through numerous transactions/deals and the NFL benefit of higher draft selections awarded to teams with poor records.

2010 we had two first round selections in the top 15 (Russel Okung and Earl Thomas) and by picking in the upper tier of draft selections (top 15) of each round we made some "steals"...early drafts got us Kam Chancellor/Richard Sherman/Bobby Wagner/KJ Wright/Russell Wilson. Then as a rookie RW accelerated us into winning seasons as his skill set grew as a QB. Winning seasons string together close matches and add them to the games you're expected to win...but now your draft selections come from the bottom of the draft rounds...year after year...any draft "mistakes" are now magnified...and once you are paying any marque players (B.Wagner/KJ Wright/Bennett/Avril/Lockett and especially your now elite QB) past their rookie/first free agent contract...your GM is constrained into waiting for 2nd wave of free agent targets...

[trents]

tarlhawk, what you say is true and we all understand how the NFL's draft scheme handicaps successful teams and rewards bottom feeders. That is why many of us are saying we need to have a fire sale, bite the bullet, get it over with sooner as opposed to dragging it out in order to become a bottom dweller getting those high draft picks once again. Many of us are also saying Pete and John are not the ones we believe will manage the process well of rebuilding the team. It might take 5-8 years with the best management. Pete is 70 years old now.

[Hawktawk]

Russell did the right things in handling the 49ers at a time where they were coming in "hot" and probably took us for granted. Russell was focused...confident and his timing was a result of being "locked in". We need "that" Russell consistently ...with that guy we win the close games...which rewards the defense for keeping a game close. Winning the close games is how elite QB's string together wins. Parity in the NFL has become quite real...which "explains the unexplainable" when a "bottom feeder" team beats a team "it should have no chance of winning against".

Nick Foles hardly represents your typical 3rd string NFL QB and his experience and quick decisions with the weather conditions kept them close enough to surprise the outcome. Time of possession once more raised its ugly head as we left our defense on the field way too long. As a Miami Dolphin fan I was used to how time of possession works in a ball control running dominant era (I was a fan of Miami starting in 1971) and on the contrary how it doesn't work on a Quick strike offense (Marino). Miami's Defense was much maligned and ranked low during Marino's peak years...it also accounted for many a 4th quarter rally by the opponent but Marino was popping 3-4 TD's in his prime with Duper and Clayton as his two play making WR's.

This season has become a "wash" and with lessons learned we can hope for a successful off season and everything is possible in 2022 with Russell restored to his normal self. You can't ignore how he did against the 49ers and say RW is washed up. He needs to slay his personal demons and return in 2022 back in business. Those are my opinions and why I can look forward to 2022 ...we need some extensions signed...a successful draft...and some key players returned in good health off of this years Injured Reserve.

The margin of victory vs the 9ers was provided by an incredible ballsy fake punt after the offense had stalled. In addition the defense turned over the 9ers multiple times . To that point it was probably Russels second best game of the year though . The only 2 dominant performances of the year were Geno vs the Jags and Russ vs the Texans . Not a good yardstick . Bad team , bad coaching , bad bad QB play . It’s a recipe for 5-12. Everything should be in the discussion.

[NorthHawk]

There’s a narrative being promoted that a team needs high draft picks to become a contender.
That’s not how we built our SB team. Our only high picks were Okung and ET. Okung was hurt a lot his first few years
and ET was healthy. But our championship team was built by later picks:
Wagner 2nd round
Russ 3rd round
Sherm 5th round
Kam 5th round
Marshawn - traded for a 4th round
Browner FA from the CFL

Teams only have 1 high pick each year not including trades, but that means in 3 years 3 selections whereas
in rounds 2-5 that’s 12 players. So teams are really built from the 2nd round on. Look at perennial
sad sacks like the Jets. How well are they doing after consistently drafting in the top 10? So it boils down to
who a team drafts in the 2nd round onward that makes the most difference. It’s not to say 1sts aren’t important
but they are fewer in number so teams that want to improve absolutely must hit on their mid to late round picks.

[RiverDog]

tarlhawk, what you say is true and we all understand how the NFL's draft scheme handicaps successful teams and rewards bottom feeders. That is why many of us are saying we need to have a fire sale, bite the bullet, get it over with sooner as opposed to dragging it out in order to become a bottom dweller getting those high draft picks once again. Many of us are also saying Pete and John are not the ones we believe will manage the process well of rebuilding the team. It might take 5-8 years with the best management. Pete is 70 years old now.

Agreed.

[Hawktawk]

It does not have to take 6-8 years . It depends who you get . On the field and on the sidelines and in the FO. With free agency . But you must begin . Even if it’s 3 years Pete’s pushing 74 before we are relevant . Honestly I think we whiffed on a gimme this year . The players were adequate for the most part . For all the hype we were in both Rams games including with a backup . Az looks dreadful . We swept the 9ers . Lost to 3 teams playing backups, all against our franchise QB. Blew a huge lead to the Titans . Shut out second half vs the Vikes in a 13 point loss . The Vikes have not won any game by more than 8 since that game . I could go on . Wasting heroic defensive efforts over and over .

I’m kind of matter of fact and maybe a bit ruthless when it comes to my sport’s teams . My mom used to say she wanted me in charge if she wound up on life support in a coma because I would pull the plug . I feel the same about my players and coaches . I love them when they are helping but I’m ready to pull the plug when they are no longer winning . I want wins, maybe boring wins as opposed to exciting losses . It’s been that way for my whole life . It’s a sad time . It’s been a great run .

[NorthHawk]

It doesn't take that long to turn things around if you have the will and a good plan.
Pete arrived here in Jan 2010 and in Feb 2014 we won the SB.
And that was with a lesser starting base than we have today.
However, if they did do a rebuild, Pete would be 74 or 75 by the time we got to the championship and I don't see him wanting to go through that again.

[tarlhawk]

The margin of victory vs the 9ers was provided by an incredible ballsy fake punt after the offense had stalled. In addition the defense turned over the 9ers multiple times . To that point it was probably Russels second best game of the year though . The only 2 dominant performances of the year were Geno vs the Jags and Russ vs the Texans . Not a good yardstick . Bad team , bad coaching , bad bad QB play . It’s a recipe for 5-12. Everything should be in the discussion.

My point wasn't how we eeked out a win against a very good team coming in...but the QB play was vintage Russel Wilson in accuracy and focus showing he is dealing with the injury...unless very cold weather plays a factor...I have no feel for whether it would be an issue. Our season is over but the last two games can make the QB play of RW relevant again.

[Hawktawk]

My point wasn't how we eeked out a win against a very good team coming in...but the QB play was vintage Russel Wilson in accuracy and focus showing he is dealing with the injury...unless very cold weather plays a factor...I have no feel for whether it would be an issue. Our season is over but the last two games can make the QB play of RW relevant again.

Even in the 9ers game there were a couple balls that Russ doesn’t throw , super bad misses. If this is as good as the hand is going to get he’s just not going to be as accurate . By how much we will see. In the frigid weather not close to old Russ. I hope he balls out last 2 . I root for his success . I just call it like I see it .

[Aseahawkfan]

Comparing apples to oranges is comparing the "early" drafts from the "current" drafts. One is not being totally honest to not know how the NFL enforces parity in its efforts to prevent dynasties and bottom feeders from being common. Our early drafts benefited from having a good core of players on the roster from the 8 year build-up under Mike Holmgren which Pete would parlay into a rebuilt younger roster through numerous transactions/deals and the NFL benefit of higher draft selections awarded to teams with poor records.

2010 we had two first round selections in the top 15 (Russel Okung and Earl Thomas) and by picking in the upper tier of draft selections (top 15) of each round we made some "steals"...early drafts got us Kam Chancellor/Richard Sherman/Bobby Wagner/KJ Wright/Russell Wilson. Then as a rookie RW accelerated us into winning seasons as his skill set grew as a QB. Winning seasons string together close matches and add them to the games you're expected to win...but now your draft selections come from the bottom of the draft rounds...year after year...any draft "mistakes" are now magnified...and once you are paying any marque players (B.Wagner/KJ Wright/Bennett/Avril/Lockett and especially your now elite QB) past their rookie/first free agent contract...your GM is constrained into waiting for 2nd wave of free agent targets...

And yet Pittsburgh and New England both stay on top by drafting and developing well with cheap, effective free agents. Seattle falls into the gutter by continuing to trade away high draft picks and fail with high round picks like Penny and almost every pass rusher we've drafted the last 3 or 4 years. The Baltimore Ravens have also remained competitive drafting well and not making stupid trades.

The best franchises build and develop through the draft. They don't do trades like Pete and John are doing. It's a bad way to manage a roster.

It has nothing to do with winning every year. Patriots won every year for 16 years? Pittsburgh for practically their entire franchise have remained competitive with rare exception. Baltimore Ravens have remained competitive year after year. Green Bay same thing.

How do they do it? Drafting well and developing regardless of where they pick because the smart HCs and GMs know that you can manage a salary cap far easier drafting and developing well then sending a bunch of draft capital to other teams for their players looking for expensive contracts. So this has nothing to do with the draft and everything to do with paying players from other teams that is a sign of bad roster management.

The NFL formula is really, really simple, but really, really hard to execute well if you're not disciplined.

It's get a franchise QB. He's the only guy you pay almost any price to keep. Then draft and develop pieces around him keeping the salary cap low and never letting anyone leverage you into big money you can't get rid of because the only guy worth paying an extreme wage is the QB. That is how you do the NFL well. That means the most important guy in your house is the GM, HC, and QB with associated scouting and coaching staff. I've seen John Schneider state this more than a few times because he comes from Green Bay where they know how to manage a team roster. But for some reason they keep making shiny toy trades that I doubt Schneider would make if Pete Carroll did not push them. Carroll is the one who thinks he's a few players away all the time and doesn't have the discipline to draft and develop like he had when he first got here. That's why my main target for gone is Pete Carroll. I'll always appreciate what he did for Seattle. But he's no longer disciplined, patient, and he is too impulsive with roster management. He needs his wings clipped and real GM power to be handed to John to see what he can do on his own.

[NorthHawk]

The last few years make me wonder if Pete wants to put in the work required to really build
a championship team. The trades of recent years suggests that he’s trying to plug holes
instead of building a team with younger and cheaper players. It could be that at 70 he sees
that he doesn’t have a lot of time to get it done.

[RiverDog]

The last few years make me wonder if Pete wants to put in the work required to really build a championship team. The trades of recent years suggests that he’s trying to plug holes instead of building a team with younger and cheaper players. It could be that at 70 he sees
that he doesn’t have a lot of time to get it done.

The problem with that theory is the contract he signed last year that carries him through the 2025 season. If he felt like he had to win now, do you think he would have signed a contract for that long of a term?

[NorthHawk]

I doubt he's going to sign a 1 year contract.
He signed a 5 year contract and goes year by year as to whether he will continue depending on how he feels. He pretty much came out and said that.
So the 5 year contract just gives him options every year - and it might give Management options as well depending on the terms.

[Hawktawk]

I doubt he's going to sign a 1 year contract.
He signed a 5 year contract and goes year by year as to whether he will continue depending on how he feels. He pretty much came out and said that.
So the 5 year contract just gives him options every year - and it might give Management options as well depending on the terms.

If I can sign a contract for 5 years at 11 million I’m signing it

[trents]

The problem with that theory is the contract he signed last year that carries him through the 2025 season. If he felt like he had to win now, do you think he would have signed a contract for that long of a term?

Not sure I see the logic in this. Pete is always certain with just a tweak here and a free agent signing there that he will be in contention for a super bowl birth the next year. He himself has said that the Hawks need retooling, not rebuilding. He is in perpetual rose colored glasses denial.

[tarlhawk]

Can't believe so many people were over the top upset at losing to the bears in the closing moments. Our players weren't tanking...it was an ugly game due to weather conditions...and my point in mentioning the weather is not as an excuse for our loss...both teams played in it. My point is bad weather games almost always level the field somewhat and make for a disappointing viewing from a tv standpoint.

[Hawktawk]

They both played in the weather . Our back gashed them for 135 and every big run put us in scoring range . Penney was far more responsible than any other offensive player for the 24 points that were scored . He put it on the 8 and Russ put it back to the 22. The defense got a 4 and out . Penney got it to their 30. Then he gets 2 then a hold on Parkinson. On 2nd and 18 they run a jet sweep with Eskridge for the 3rd time to the same side and get stuffed for a loss . Dickson puts it in the end zone . They stick it up our yazoo and tack on 2 . Then Tarihawk let’s get real . A minute to get in field goal range from our 30 with a franchise quarterback . We didn’t get a first down . It’s a brutal loss , a snapshot of this team right now.

[tarlhawk]

Then Tarihawk let’s get real . A minute to get in field goal range from our 30 with a franchise quarterback . We didn’t get a first down . It’s a brutal loss , a snapshot of this team right now.

When I mentioned the weather ...sure both teams played in it...I said that already...My point was the weather leveled the playing field making it possible for either team to have an equal chance at winning. Defense and running ability play a much heavier outcome. Our strength and advantage is our play making WR duo. You compare individuals...lauding some...demeaning the rest...when all NFL games are a team effort. Our TEAM lost...plenty of things can be pointed out...but why? ...what is the motive?

[I-5]

He needs to slay his personal demons and return in 2022 back in business....

Just curious to hear your theory of what those demons might be.
Any ideas?

[tarlhawk]

Just curious to hear your theory of what those demons might be.
Any ideas?

I made this post in several other posts including RW trade rumors...

Its my opinion and mine alone at times it seems...but Russell Wilson is seeing life itself a little outside of the sports world and the success it has been for him. Some comments he made his post game conference almost seemed telling.

and that's going to be tomorrow morning when we wake up -- God willing, we wake up and tomorrow morning we get to do it and focus on that, and I think it's the only way to get better.

I think my dad up in heaven, man, no matter what, he is always smiling down. Whatever else is going around in anybody else's thinking or whatever, and so many people have so many things in their life they're going through, and the thing for me is always stay focused on joy

I made this post earlier but I think its still right with some mild editing...

Russ's biggest loss has been when his confidence wains ...losing can be so very draining and no one bears blame as much as a QB which is why he needs a P/U from PC but PC's own frustration has come out in subtle negative comments (subtle to most...but clear to Russ).

He tries to be upbeat in press conferences...and this comes across as not accepting blame...but he beats up himself internally more than displayed by his subdued yet upbeat messaging. All his main confidence boosters...winning culture...great fan base...and budding team mate friendships...have been strained by his injury/pride of having his iron man rep lost this season...the severely damaging loss of his life coach (Sep 17, 2021 · Trevor Moawad, who was Wilson's longtime mental-conditioning coach, business partner and "best friend," died from cancer this week at age 48. Heaven just got better. I love you ) *right before the Titan's game* We pass it off as Russell having suffered loss before and seemed resilient...but Russ is a bit older and perhaps leaned a lot more on this "coach" than revealed. The injury just compounded a life still healing with time...and the reality of life grounded him with its sudden complications.

I think his confidence level is betrayed by his forced smiles...but I really feel his confidence level is KEY to his on-field focus and sense of timing...the interceptions have strained his relationship with PC...and his lack of focus has strained his relationship with DK...losing Tyler to covid took away his safety valve when he needed him most (let alone any personal concern of Tyler having symptoms). A very challenging year which will test RW's mettle . We sometimes gloss over our very human nature...while keeping up our own persona even when its faltering.

We all sometimes see sports as an escape to a place where any team (and we hope especially our own) can win with huge effort on display and while caught up in the moment of distraction we forget life going on in real time. We forget what loss of life feels like...we are able to be distracted from the impact Covid is having world-wide as well as here in the cities we live in. I had played an on-line game with world wide players and some of them have had their lives turned upside down by this pandemic. Is it impossible to think a highly paid sports entertainer is suddenly feeling insecure in his personal life by the sobering thoughts of tragic life complications?

[NorthHawk]

I keep saying this: Russ's heart isn't all in it and it started when Carroll pulled in the reins last year when there were a couple of games of too many turnovers.
Wilson hasn't been the same since and you can see it in his body language and eyes. Part of it might also be from not being traded last year, but that's just
speculation. I think he just wants out from under Carroll.

[Hawktawk]

I keep saying this: Russ's heart isn't all in it and it started when Carroll pulled in the reins last year when there were a couple of games of too many turnovers.
Wilson hasn't been the same since and you can see it in his body language and eyes. Part of it might also be from not being traded last year, but that's just
speculation. I think he just wants out from under Carroll.

Russ and Pete likely need a divorce. But Wilson has been becoming not the same for longer than a year. The play was still there in the regular season though. But I can remember at least the last 3 off-season's he was making comments after another playoff loss he didn't perform particularly well in or played like crap in some. "We need more dudes, need more guys". Not " we have to be better". Post game pressers after playoff losses were increasingly dismissive, flippant, disagreeing with PCs take on his mistakes in games . Its flat out warfare between them now.
I think Russ wants to be the center of attention as much as he wants to win. The "tired of getting hit too much" was just the latest petulant comment. And it worked out poorly because hes playing the worst ball of his career now. It was terrible blaming what was graded as the #9 line in pass protection last year after sharting the bed 11-29 with a pick 6 against the Rams . That was with no Aaron Donald much of the game. Wasted a 12-4 regular season everyone had a hand in creating. That would have been a great Seahawks season 10 years or even 5 years ago. Not now.

[NorthHawk]

Russ was on fire the first 5 games last year. He was probably the reason we won those games as the Defense was giving up historically high yardage
and we didn't have any sort of pass rush. Then they lost a couple of games and turnovers were much of the issue and Pete pulled back the Offense and
said we were going to run it his way. Russ hasn't bee the same since.