“It’s a scheme thing”

[c_hawkbob]

I like you take overall Tarl (and welcome to the board BTW!) but I will take issue with Russ having once said that we need to get better up front qualifying as "constant pointing at the offensive line". Just because a thing is picked up by a hundred different talking heads and gets constantly regurgitated in the press cycle (especially during the offseason when there is a feeding frenzy for headline worthy material) does not mean that thing is actually being said constantly.

[tarlhawk]

I like you take overall Tarl (and welcome to the board BTW!) but I will take issue with Russ having once said that we need to get better up front qualifying as "constant pointing at the offensive line". Just because a thing is picked up by a hundred different talking heads and gets constantly regurgitated in the press cycle (especially during the offseason when there is a feeding frenzy for headline worthy material) does not mean that thing is actually being said constantly.

No you misunderstand...not saying Russell says that...saying our media and fans alike have said this as Russell has evolved!

[c_hawkbob]

On that then I do not greatly disagree. Much of the reason for the excessive sacks is owing to Russ' penchant for extending plays. This is not an aspect of his game he needs to move further away from IMO however. He has, to a great degree developed as a solid pocket passer already and is as likely to stand in and fire away as he is to take off on a scramble (usually still looking to pass), a thing he did much more often in his first couple years. Also as you mentioned deep pass plays take longer to unfold and as he is the best deep ball thrower in the league I do not want to see less of that.

Another consideration on our O-line however is the type of linemen we draft. We tend to lean toward better run blockers than pass blockers, and as we have shown to be shy about spending very high draft capital on our O-line getting a lineman that excels at both is rare for us. I don't see this dynamic changing as long as Pete's remains in charge. It just is what it is.

[RiverDog]

Rasheem Green, Darryl Williams, Alton Robinson, Poona Ford, Jordayn Brooks, Marquise Blair and Diggs/Adams were the ones I was referencing. Wagner/Brooks/Adams and Williams/Robinson are all very capable of elevating a defense. Few rookies on defense become instant stars reflective of their skill-sets...mainly because NFL rules now cater more than before to TV ratings. Dominating defenses are boring to the casual fan and to boost ratings the casual fan is heavily courted. Also your casual fan doesn't want to see high touches go to a RB who needs those 3-4 yards and a pile of dust to get his rhythm going. Russel has great fan appeal and is well deserving of it...but the constant pointing at the offensive line was not quite fair. Downfield plays take time to develop and time to develop means the line must sustain their blocks much longer against physical "monsters" (unless they can disguise their holds on a consistent basis) which is why run-blocking is usually easier to coach than pass protection) Our team has the skills and enthusiasm to excel...but again the NFL requires experience over natural instincts. Traditional defensive schemes is what the NFL attacked with its rules manipulation. Pete is only guilty of trying to separate the fun of playing hard nosed football from the business aspect that overshadows every season. New arrivals...especially veteran free agents all comment on how refreshing it is to arrive and be a part of our coaches culture.

I agree that some of the rule changes could have the effect of increasing viewership and overall popularity of the game as they primarily benefit the offense and contribute to a star system of position players, particularly quarterbacks, but IMO it's more of an indirect result rather rather than their primary objective. The league knows that they have to reduce the risk of injury to their players or it could jeopardize the future of the sport itself. All it would take is for one player to get killed on national TV and it could devastate the sport. I do believe that the league is genuine in desire to make the sport safer through rule changes although there are times when I think that they go too far, such as roughing the QB.

Besides, if that's their strategy, it's not working very well. Super Bowl ratings peaked in 2015 and are down 20% Ratings were down across the board last season, with MNF down 3%, CBS Sunday down 4%, Fox Sunday down 6%, Fox TNF down 6%, and NBC's SNF down a whopping 16%.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl- ... fl-season/

Do you have some sort of evidence to show a relationship between rule changes and tv ratings, or are you just venturing an opinion?

[tarlhawk]

Besides, if that's their strategy, it's not working very well. Super Bowl ratings peaked in 2015 and are down 20% Ratings were down across the board last season, with MNF down 3%, CBS Sunday down 4%, Fox Sunday down 6%, Fox TNF down 6%, and NBC's SNF down a whopping 16%.

It is my opinion...but why else open up the middle to crossing routes by altering just a few rules (what constitutes a "catch") and (Defenseless player protected as such until he "transforms into a runner") This part of the field was well protected by a defense by punishing any WR/TE who dared to come into "high defensive traffic" Many injuries/fumbles made it all high risk! But now the rule emphasis (as it stands) opens up the hardest part of the field to defend as fair game. Your QB doesn't have a strong accurate arm...not needed! Your offensive line not so good...not needed since you only have to sustain your blocks a few seconds at most! Other teams DB's playing too tight...middle route breaks and stops afford little recovery time for safeties or even the defender in coverage. Kirk Cousins painfully provided full advantage of "surgical" use of the middle to frustrate our coverage/pass rush...without the need of Play-Action! This not only gives the QB a quick-release due to less time to run the routes but forces the LB's to hesitate aggressive run pursuit vice dropping back to provide underneath coverage. As more and more fans realize that even your "average" NFL QB can star in making full use this "wide-open" territory they will second guess what is happening to their defense. RB's with decent vision can capitalize on anything that makes LB/SS hesitate.

[Hawktawk]

Really enjoy your input and great addition to the forum . I’m
62 and remember guys like Easley and Lott destroy and erase receivers who came over the middle . My first live game in the kingdome was mid 80s .Some poor receiver came across the middle , got T. rex arms seeing Easly and still got erased . You could hear and feel the pads pop from the stands . On another play Bosworth got a clean shot at Blackledge . He hit him right in the head so hard his helmet popped off and he was sitting on the field with a nose bleed . Neither play drew a flag . I agree it’s generally too easy for receivers anymore as well as qbs . I’ll say vs the Titans our safeties did lay some licks on them and made them pay . Brown actually dropped a few balls . That was obviously about Henry getting rolling . It’s a dumpster fire right now . This team can’t take another game like this Sunday . It’s as important a week 4 matchup as we have had in quite a while.

[NorthHawk]

The short underneath passing routes aren't open for every team. The better Defenses stop those on a regular basis mostly because of
good talent but also good scheming and coaching. We have always been vulnerable to this type of play with Carroll's Defense, but now
it's even worse because of the dropoff of talent. Outside of 2 or 3 players we have a group of journeymen on Defense when this style
requires superior athletes/talent to be a success. It's why the D was so good during the LoB years as we had both qualities throughout
the Defense. Outside of Wagner and perhaps Diggs, I don't see much on D that is of superior quality. The DL is pretty weak, Brooks
might be good but to me he's taken a bit of a step back from last year and the Corners are both average at best. Why they traded for
Adams is becoming a mystery to me. Pete says they are still figuring out how to use him. To me that's like paying top dollar for a
near new Lamborghini but not knowing how to drive stick and trying to figure it out later.

Offensive line? Forget it. They've never had a good OL under Carroll. Lynch made up for a lot of shortcomings by breaking tackles
and set up the pass game for Wilson. We've seen how bad it's been since he left the Seahawks. We went through the better part of
a decade watching draft picks getting moved from T to G and back again all the while trying to learn how to play in the NFL and learn
a complicated blocking scheme. Ifedi is a prime example as he didn't play much with his hand in the dirt in college but was asked to
learn that plus a hybrid zone/man scheme for 2 positions. A young player may have all the athleticism in the world, but if he has to
think about his assignment for each play, he's not going to do well at this level. Carpenter was the same except he came from a Pro
style Offense but we gave up on him after his first contract. Both he and Ifedi went to other teams and had or have continuing
successful careers by playing a single position and being allowed to learn it.

[RiverDog]

Why they traded for Adams is becoming a mystery to me. Pete says they are still figuring out how to use him. To me that's like paying top dollar for a near new Lamborghini but not knowing how to drive stick and trying to figure it out later.

Plus then he compounds the problem by signing him to the largest contract ever for a safety. You're not the only one that's scratching your head when Pete indicated that he didn't know how he wanted to use Adams.

Offensive line? Forget it. They've never had a good OL under Carroll.

Although I agree with the basic premise, I think it's an over exaggeration to say that we've never had a good OL. Last season, PFF ranked our OL as middle of the pack, 16th in pass pro and 14th overall. While that's not a rousing endorsement, it does demonstrate that it's not the root of all evil that some make it out to be. Scrambling quarterbacks and QB's that take a long time to pass are extremely difficult to block for and tend to drive down their ratings.

[NorthHawk]

I don't think being ranked 14th and 16th is a good OL but an average OL.
And Russell extending plays doesn't help the stats either but it really shows
up with an inconsistent run game. When was the last time on short yardage
you felt comfortable with our OL pushing the DL back or creating running room
to make the 1st down? It's been years for me.

[RiverDog]

I don't think being ranked 14th and 16th is a good OL but an average OL.
And Russell extending plays doesn't help the stats either but it really shows
up with an inconsistent run game. When was the last time on short yardage
you felt comfortable with our OL pushing the DL back or creating running room
to make the 1st down? It's been years for me.

I guess it's a matter of semantics. I consider "good" and "average" as meaning more or less the same thing.

As far as feeling comfortable with running the ball in short yardage situations, you're right, it's been years since I've felt comfortable, something I like to point out to those that thought we should have handed the ball off to Beast in SB 49. But as you know, that's not the only measure of a good offensive line.

Our running game isn't "inconsistent", either. We're averaging 5.1 YPC, 4th best in the league. What's inconsistent is how we're using it. We're 4th in the league in YPC yet we're 29th in rushing attempts. Sort of makes you wonder why we're not using the running game more often to hide our glaring deficiencies on defense and cut into that horrible TOP stat that we own.

My point is that although it's an area where I would like to see us improve, the OL is not chopped liver, either. Plus our quarterback's style of play has a profound effect on our perception of their performance. They are far from the weakest position group on the team.

[tarlhawk]

On that then I do not greatly disagree. Much of the reason for the excessive sacks is owing to Russ' penchant for extending plays. This is not an aspect of his game he needs to move further away from IMO however. He has, to a great degree developed as a solid pocket passer already and is as likely to stand in and fire away as he is to take off on a scramble (usually still looking to pass), a thing he did much more often in his first couple years. Also as you mentioned deep pass plays take longer to unfold and as he is the best deep ball thrower in the league I do not want to see less of that.

Another consideration on our O-line however is the type of linemen we draft. We tend to lean toward better run blockers than pass blockers, and as we have shown to be shy about spending very high draft capital on our O-line getting a lineman that excels at both is rare for us. I don't see this dynamic changing as long as Pete's remains in charge. It just is what it is.

Pretty sure Waldron's "new" (soon won't be able to say new) schemes added to our offensive playback allow Russ to "adjust"/audible for downfield plays if they aren't initially called but should be leaning to middle "safety" routes that take advantage of a variety of targets (WR3/TE/RB all to make it harder for our opponents to prepare a pregame plan.

JS is a good GM who realized Colleges were going more to a spread offense (various names utilized) and more away from traditional Pass-Pro offenses in the NFL. In college these types of offenses are quick outs/short routes all meant to confuse. College pass blockers because of this barely have to sustain their blocks and minimizes flags called for holding. Result? Less reliable scouting from games so you look for qualities of a coachable target...body shape/flexibility/football IQ/how well he handles an above avg defender (College version of all-star game/various bowl games) Out of college they are ready for run blocking...while with few exceptions you have your line coach train them up for pass-pro. Ideally they aren't forced into playing as a rookie but a good athlete like Damien Lewis can provide exception. Its not a Pete thing...its what colleges are putting out. The easiest lineman to take a chance on...is seldom a secret...it only requires a top (10-15) pick...have to go back to our first draft with PC/JS (in 2010)..we had two top first round draft picks (Earl Thomas and hmm Russel Okung)

[tarlhawk]

Why they traded for
Adams is becoming a mystery to me. Pete says they are still figuring out how to use him. To me that's like paying top dollar for a
near new Lamborghini but not knowing how to drive stick and trying to figure it out later.

This was used by me in another post (I'm a bit lazy that way...apologize in advance)
Back to Pete and hand wringing over J. Adams...I shed a little light on how our draft strategy is forced to acknowledge our winning ways...which then gives us very low picks. So how do we get someone with Top-10 draft status...suffer thru a 3-14 losing record?? No you do a "business deal" equivalent. First you have to find a willing team...who wants to help the Seahawks?? ...few takers so look for someone looking to strip away cap space while accumulating draft capital (NY Jets). What is fair market value? Target's age? Young 20's ... Targets potential? Top 10 pick/high ceiling...potential realized? Demonstrated elite (all-pro consideration/actual All-Pro 2019) So youth and potential (one #1 pick) demonstrated elite (another #1 pick) We paid full-market value! Contract ?? We didn't have the luxury of drafting him and getting a full bargain rookie contract so we had a one year test of his abilities. The pass rushing ability reflected his nose for the ball and relentless pursuit. He contributed in that role to help our 2nd half of the season defensive turnaround. As he absorbs the playbook/acclimate to his team mates his value with become more evident-he helped us in a big way to win our NFC West Championship. PC and JS seen enough to commit long-term...does every good decision bear the best fruits right away...live life a little longer

[tarlhawk]

The short underneath passing routes aren't open for every team. The better Defenses stop those on a regular basis mostly because of
good talent but also good scheming and coaching. We have always been vulnerable to this type of play with Carroll's Defense, but now
it's even worse because of the dropoff of talent. Outside of 2 or 3 players we have a group of journeymen on Defense when this style
requires superior athletes/talent to be a success. It's why the D was so good during the LoB years as we had both qualities throughout
the Defense. Outside of Wagner and perhaps Diggs, I don't see much on D that is of superior quality. The DL is pretty weak, Brooks
might be good but to me he's taken a bit of a step back from last year and the Corners are both average at best. Why they traded for
Adams is becoming a mystery to me. Pete says they are still figuring out how to use him. To me that's like paying top dollar for a
near new Lamborghini but not knowing how to drive stick and trying to figure it out later.

Offensive line? Forget it. They've never had a good OL under Carroll. Lynch made up for a lot of shortcomings by breaking tackles
and set up the pass game for Wilson. We've seen how bad it's been since he left the Seahawks. We went through the better part of
a decade watching draft picks getting moved from T to G and back again all the while trying to learn how to play in the NFL and learn
a complicated blocking scheme. Ifedi is a prime example as he didn't play much with his hand in the dirt in college but was asked to
learn that plus a hybrid zone/man scheme for 2 positions. A young player may have all the athleticism in the world, but if he has to
think about his assignment for each play, he's not going to do well at this level. Carpenter was the same except he came from a Pro
style Offense but we gave up on him after his first contract. Both he and Ifedi went to other teams and had or have continuing
successful careers by playing a single position and being allowed to learn it.

[tarlhawk]

The short underneath passing routes aren't open for every team. The better Defenses stop those on a regular basis mostly because of
good talent but also good scheming and coaching. We have always been vulnerable to this type of play with Carroll's Defense, but now
it's even worse because of the dropoff of talent. Outside of 2 or 3 players we have a group of journeymen on Defense when this style
requires superior athletes/talent to be a success. It's why the D was so good during the LoB years as we had both qualities throughout
the Defense. Outside of Wagner and perhaps Diggs, I don't see much on D that is of superior quality. The DL is pretty weak, Brooks
might be good but to me he's taken a bit of a step back from last year and the Corners are both average at best. Why they traded for
Adams is becoming a mystery to me. Pete says they are still figuring out how to use him. To me that's like paying top dollar for a
near new Lamborghini but not knowing how to drive stick and trying to figure it out later.

Regular basis? Well I seldom watch games outside of our own but in my restricted viewing and definitely in what Kirk Cousins did to us I would say a defense is hard pressed to stop this with a tandem of speedy/elusive receivers and I'm not buying the skill level of our defenders as a slew of journeymen with few exceptions...its not a question of skill but one of experience/play recognition. To me it seems a big advantage for an offense since a WR can quickly come out of his break knowing right where the QB is plans to throw it. If its two WR crossing the decoy receiver can do a quick pick on our guy trailing the target...nothing overt since picks are illegal just seldom enforced. Our LOB was very good because they grew as a group almost together since R. Sherman benefited from a slew of injuries and his understanding of a WR route tree (from being a receiver before) made it his job to lose. Quick breaking underneath routes seem to give even the better DB's trouble.

[RiverDog]

Regular basis? Well I seldom watch games outside of our own but in my restricted viewing and definitely in what Kirk Cousins did to us I would say a defense is hard pressed to stop this with a tandem of speedy/elusive receivers and I'm not buying the skill level of our defenders as a slew of journeymen with few exceptions...its not a question of skill but one of experience/play recognition. To me it seems a big advantage for an offense since a WR can quickly come out of his break knowing right where the QB is plans to throw it. If its two WR crossing the decoy receiver can do a quick pick on our guy trailing the target...nothing overt since picks are illegal just seldom enforced. Our LOB was very good because they grew as a group almost together since R. Sherman benefited from a slew of injuries and his understanding of a WR route tree (from being a receiver before) made it his job to lose. Quick breaking underneath routes seem to give even the better DB's trouble.

Jouneymen might have been a bit over the top, but I agree with what North Hawk is saying. It's pretty hard to argue that we have above average talent in our secondary when we're sitting dead last in the league in defense. They don't defend passes, they don't create turnovers (we're one of 4 teams that has yet to make an interception this season) or otherwise make athletic plays that one would expect out of good defensive backs.

A lot of us have made note of the fact that our secondary is hindered by a sub par pass rush, but the stats don't bear that out. It's only been 3 games so the sample size is small, but take a look at the advanced team passing defense stats. We rank 12th in sacks, 2nd in knock downs (when the QB hits the ground) 14th in hurries, 15th in pressures, and we're not blitzing at an abnormally high rate. Those numbers aren't something that we want to brag about, but they're also not reflective of a defense that's ranked 26th in passing yardage allowed and 32nd overall.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ll_passing

I'm also not buying the inexperience excuse. Flowers is 26 years old and in his 4th season. Same with DJ Reed. Adams is in his 5th season, Diggs in his 7th. Our starting secondary are all well experienced and should be in the primes of their careers. They've all played a lot of football.

[tarlhawk]

Jouneymen might have been a bit over the top, but I agree with what North Hawk is saying. It's pretty hard to argue that we have above average talent in our secondary when we're sitting dead last in the league in defense. They don't defend passes, they don't create turnovers (we're one of 4 teams that has yet to make an interception this season) or otherwise make athletic plays that one would expect out of good defensive backs.

A lot of us have made note of the fact that our secondary is hindered by a sub par pass rush, but the stats don't bear that out. It's only been 3 games so the sample size is small, but take a look at the advanced team passing defense stats. We rank 12th in sacks, 2nd in knock downs (when the QB hits the ground) 14th in hurries, 15th in pressures, and we're not blitzing at an abnormally high rate. Those numbers aren't something that we want to brag about, but they're also not reflective of a defense that's ranked 26th in passing yardage allowed and 32nd overall.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ll_passing

I'm also not buying the inexperience excuse. Flowers is 26 years old and in his 4th season. Same with DJ Reed. Adams is in his 5th season, Diggs in his 7th. Our starting secondary are all well experienced and should be in the primes of their careers. They've all played a lot of football.

I never said we had above avg corners. What I have said is that they are likely playing how they have been told. Their experience at play recognition is not a function of just being on the field. Flowers best season was his first year as a starter and any struggles were identified as a result of being converted from Safety in college to corner in NFL. This is the NFL however and an opponents own film study can identify before (and confirm in-game) any tendencies/weaknesses of the subject being studied...guarantee that every QB on our schedule has broken down our secondary on film. Also I questioned whether our corners are "allowed" to jump routes or even if they are playing off the receiver as the scheme used to start the season.

The defense as a whole works its best as a whole where assignments are performed as coached and everyone is expected to execute their position/responsibility. We didn't switch DC even though we have changed some secondary positions. My own theory is this...certain pieces of what our coaches envision as our 2021 Defense are not in place yet...as far as form/fit/function within the unit as a whole. We didn't plan to lose Quinton Dunbar and we wanted Witherspoon/Damarius Randall to claim a corner. Randall didn't "pop" off of film consistently during camp/pre-season and Witherspoon seemed unwilling to "get dirty" on obvious running plays. When the smoke had cleared Reed and Flowers were left and both are strong at tackling and run support.

Switching out starters with the season underway is not as simple as we make it...there's a reason jobs are won and lost in camp. Camp/practices/pre-season are all used especially if your team is being "honest" about competition deciding starting roles. Injuries or an incumbant starter who started the season on IR...you think film of Jones vs Flowers is fair competition. Richard Sherman didn't come off the bench his rookie year to replace "corners playing badly" ...it took a slew of injuries and him putting his skills on display in actual games to keep his corner going forward.

[NorthHawk]

It boils down to us not getting the talent we used to. Trading draft picks on a gamble the player can work out hasn't for the most part
worked. We also didn't have much Cap space to add players who could help, so we were stuck with only a few additions.
It used to be that teams waited until we made cuts and then scooped those who didn't make the team. Now we are left to do the same,
and that shows how much our talent base has degraded.

[tarlhawk]

It boils down to us not getting the talent we used to. Trading draft picks on a gamble the player can work out hasn't for the most part
worked. We also didn't have much Cap space to add players who could help, so we were stuck with only a few additions.
It used to be that teams waited until we made cuts and then scooped those who didn't make the team. Now we are left to do the same,
and that shows how much our talent base has degraded.

Stated well...I'll save further talk on J.Adams for later based on posts I already made here and on SB Nation. As for our degraded talent base...welcome to the NFL. The NFL has decided dynasties are not good for business. Your typical team is supposed to peak (SB maybe/playoffs more likely) then buckling to forces in place to prevent your team from "staying there" its supposed to trend downward...dump contracts (only real way to free salary cap space) and draft replacements (cheaper rookie contracts) for an attempt to start over again...maybe deeper into the playoffs. Poor management can still undo a cellar dwelling team from utilizing the NFL's "help". You would think a bad team with very high draft picks in each and every round and early dibs on waived players "set free from their contracts" would be a big advantage but no...your team must do its "due diligence" to scout/gather useful information ...to remove most of the "gambling aspect" that draft selections represent. This is normal pattern...every 3-5 years a team is set up to plummet to a point where fans will abandon them in droves (but don't worry...our owners are told as the NFL points out their "help" is coming to make the team competitive and your crowds will be back!) Business model...nice! Fan base model...not so nice!

Every year your team resists following its business model ( ie...keep winning instead) is a year that further erodes your talent base...you just need to stop resisting the normal NFL cycle.

[NorthHawk]

The difference is our philosophy has changed from building through the draft to trading away draft picks
for shiny gems that for the most part haven't helped. JS used to stockpile draft picks and the comp picks
were seemingly like gold to him. Now we have got to the point where the last draft we had but 3 picks.
That's a total reversal of philosophy and is why we had Cap problems and why we lost Jarran Reed. The
one year rentals of Richardson and Clowney for 2nd and 3rd round picks were just 2 examples of either
not knowing what they were getting or desperation of some sort. It seems to me that Pete is all in on
a win now agenda which is at the moment blowing up in his face as this team doesn't have the talent nor
depth to go deep into the playoffs - if we even make them this year.

[tarlhawk]

The difference is our philosophy has changed from building through the draft to trading away draft picks
for shiny gems that for the most part haven't helped. JS used to stockpile draft picks and the comp picks
were seemingly like gold to him. Now we have got to the point where the last draft we had but 3 picks.
That's a total reversal of philosophy and is why we had Cap problems and why we lost Jarran Reed. The
one year rentals of Richardson and Clowney for 2nd and 3rd round picks were just 2 examples of either
not knowing what they were getting or desperation of some sort. It seems to me that Pete is all in on
a win now agenda which is at the moment blowing up in his face as this team doesn't have the talent nor
depth to go deep into the playoffs - if we even make them this year.

Our philosophy hasn't changed...times change. To accumulate comp picks you have to lose more players from your team than you gained through free agency. Strong draft classes make you need less free agents. Our talent base is being depleted because we keep winning...the business end of the NFL has leveraged draft choices and waiver pick-ups against winning teams. The longer you win the greater effect this has your teams talent base. We have not gone away from building thru the draft...the 2019 and 2020 drafts are still delivering...by overcoming injuries and NFL acclimation. We don't always "hit" on our first choices because the bottom half of each round (where we usually pick) has less "winning tickets". This leads more and more to sampling free agency (expensive habit...your one year rentals) which depletes your salary cap. The bottom line is ...Being a team that wins every year has a price to pay. Our GM and coach have juggled a complicated formula to keep us competitive year after year. Having Russell as an elite QB has made it so all three are successful at opposing the forces that make lesser teams "fold".

[NorthHawk]

Our philosophy hasn't changed...times change. To accumulate comp picks you have to lose more players from your team than you gained through free agency. Strong draft classes make you need less free agents

That's because we no longer have the talent on this team that others want.

We traded away all but 3 picks last year and won't have a first for 3 years. That's a big change in philosophy or an incompetence at the highest levels.
The idea that we don't accumulate talent because of the late draft selection is a convenient rationalization as great players are found all through the
draft. We just haven't selected many of them of late and almost never on the OL and lately on the DL.
The bottom line is we've taken a serious championship team and turned it into a hollow shell of it's former self. We used to be able to win games
without Wilson's heroics but now he's the only thing between a winning record and top 10 draft placing- or rather the Jets top 10 selection.

[tarlhawk]

understand your frustration but the blame really seems misplaced. The norm of picking from the "bottom" is not a norm of "hidden gems"...sure you can point out exceptions to any norm but to consistently find gems in picks allowed to fall by a majority of the other NFL teams is not a path to success. Why such an aversion this year? Covid made this years draft and probably even next years draft more of a foggy crystal ball than before. We normally find a way to find gems of our own by using strong scouting resources and personal connections with college coaching...all hampered since covid turned the world upside down. A 5th round pick for immediate pass pro relief in the form of Gabe Jackson...two 1rsts, a third rd and the services of Bradley McDougald who excelled in our system for a 4th rd pick in 2022 AND the services of a very talented athlete in his prime who you could NEVER find from our usual draft position...not a gamble...a coups! ...unless you think All-Pro selections are handed out like candy.

[NorthHawk]

understand your frustration but the blame really seems misplaced. The norm of picking from the "bottom" is not a norm of "hidden gems"...sure you can point out exceptions to any norm but to consistently find gems in picks allowed to fall by a majority of the other NFL teams is not a path to success. Why such an aversion this year? Covid made this years draft and probably even next years draft more of a foggy crystal ball than before. We normally find a way to find gems of our own by using strong scouting resources and personal connections with college coaching...all hampered since covid turned the world upside down. A 5th round pick for immediate pass pro relief in the form of Gabe Jackson...two 1rsts, a third rd and the services of Bradley McDougald who excelled in our system for a 4th rd pick in 2022 AND the services of a very talented athlete in his prime who you could NEVER find from our usual draft position...not a gamble...a coups! ...unless you think All-Pro selections are handed out like candy.

90% of what you wrote is unadulterated BS.
Good, solid talent is found throughout the draft. Sure, the higher you pick the better the selection, but there are a lot of busts from early round picks who were said to be "sure things".
You don't need a crystal ball to select talent, you need skilled evaluators and we've missed the mark the last 5-6 years for the most part. This past year there were a lot of good players
at positions of need for us but we didn't have the draft picks. It was one of the best years for interior OL and at Center in particular, but we didn't have the firepower that we would have
had we not swung for the fences with Adams who is turning out to be only a slight upgrade from McDougald. I mean who in their right minds trades for a player knowing he wants big $$
without having the parameters of a contract in place AND gives up 2 firsts and a third along with a solid starting player at the same position? It's probably one of the worst trades in the
NFL in the last 10 years as the Jets wanted to unload him.
The only thing I can think of outside of sudden incompetence or dementia is Pete wants to win it all then retire right after. He must think he must be near his last chance to win another
Super Bowl. Unfortunately we don't have the talent to get there with this team.

[tarlhawk]

Interesting viewpoint...just not one I can truthfully say I share. Its like saying winning has no consequences in the NFL and it does so I'm guessing you would find it more satisfying to having higher peaks while accepting lower valleys. Drafting...waiver pick-ups...salary cap...a players character and how they "fit" in the locker room...unfortunate injuries...yet our own determination of how a highly paid position can even handle this consistently?? Good solid talent is found throughout the draft...how safe a statement is that? A more successful reason to call my opinion BS would be your own research at other consistently winning teams who have a stronger talent base year after year...and find "gems" throughout the draft...unlike us? Opinions serve no purpose if constructive criticism can't be accepted. I enjoyed your reasoning for most of your article but to start with calling someones opinions BS is like saying I am being way off base...and needing to be called out...was that your intent? My opinions are my own and not meant to offend anyone's own opinions. I'll be the first to apologize.

[NorthHawk]

Interesting viewpoint...just not one I can truthfully say I share. Its like saying winning has no consequences in the NFL and it does so I'm guessing you would find it more satisfying to having higher peaks while accepting lower valleys. Drafting...waiver pick-ups...salary cap...a players character and how they "fit" in the locker room...unfortunate injuries...yet our own determination of how a highly paid position can even handle this consistently?? Good solid talent is found throughout the draft...how safe a statement is that? A more successful reason to call my opinion BS would be your own research at other consistently winning teams who have a stronger talent base year after year...and find "gems" throughout the draft...unlike us? Opinions serve no purpose if constructive criticism can't be accepted. I enjoyed your reasoning for most of your article but to start with calling someones opinions BS is like saying I am being way off base...and needing to be called out...was that your intent? My opinions are my own and not meant to offend anyone's own opinions. I'll be the first to apologize.

I expect to "win forever" or at least not wallow in mediocrity. We had a soft schedule last year that ended up helping us win the Division, then were crushed by the Rams when it counted.
Take off your rose colored glasses and don't lecture me about constructive criticism. Things are not good in Seahawk land and are getting worse. The last few years we've scrambled after
the draft to patch holes mostly because we drafted so poorly that we didn't fill the holes on the team and ended up with lesser productivity. Three drafts ago we went into it saying we need
to upgrade our pass rush. The next year it was the same. We traded for Clowney then didn't re-sign him. The same for Richardson, but still never upgraded the pass rush. Dunlap was a
good signing, but he's past his prime. So pass rush is still an issue. In the mean time we let Jarran Reed go. You know, our best inside rusher? On an already weak DL? Why? Because we
didn't have the Cap space to sign both him and Adams. No Cap Space came from bad drafting. This team has been slowly going downhill since our last SB appearance. The only thing keeping
us from being bottom feeders is Wilson, and if he's had enough at the end of his contract we will be sunk. Teams like the Pats draft late like us, and they managed to win a handful or more
Super Bowls. They did it by drafting well and not signing players at lesser important positions to record contracts only to realize they didn't know how to use him and find out he is only a
minor upgrade at best from the player they traded. It's not where you draft, it's who you draft and we haven't been good enough at that.
I want us to be in consideration to win it all every year. That's the goal and anything less is a failure. We haven't been in that position for 4 or 5 years now and are not serious contenders
this year, either. I expect us to make the playoffs, but also expect us to be one and done. Again.

[tarlhawk]

Rose colored glasses concerning?? I wasn't trying to "lecture" you on criticism...anyone with an opinion especially an "unpopular" opinion which I am often guilty of ...welcomes constructive criticism but doesn't always expect it to sound personal. I am a football fan who tries to educate themselves beyond disappointment...and consider the why's. I think a successful NFL team is often a result of a team effort...good teams feed off each other. Getting and maintaining momentum makes a difficult game just a bit easier. Upper management does a lot behind the scenes...I don't see it as rose-colored glasses to give what I can't see or control the benefit of the doubt.

The draft is one tool...both of our WR were obtained by moving up from our draft position. When we moved up in the draft to get Michael Dickson...the Broncos were our draft partner and thought it was funny when they saw we had moved up to grab a punter...who does that. This last draft was deep for interior (C/G) as you knew...but the trade was made well before the draft the previous year...and D'Eskridge is an ideal piece for Waldron's offense using motion and fly-sweeps to keep the defense off-balance. Creed Humphrey and Landon Turner were my hopes but I was sure both would be off the board...the Eskridge pick was surprising since I thought Pocic's one year contract was insurance back-up if whoever the rookie center was struggled at all.The more I saw film and read things about Eskridge...I felt better. With both Pocic and Eskridge getting hurt...it's put our growth under Waldron's schemes on hold.

Life is good...blessed with great marriage and job and a team I enjoy following. If things fall in place...great! If our team suffers I know it won't be from lack of trying. If rose-colored glasses is reflected by my not pointing fingers at individuals then thats me. You seem like a guy who just doesn't shoot off the cuff so I'm hoping we can agree to disagree at times.

[NorthHawk]

3 draft picks last year. You can't build or maintain a team that way.
Trying to rationalize that is simply looking at things with rose colored glasses.

[tarlhawk]

3 draft picks last year. You can't build or maintain a team that way.
Trying to rationalize that is simply looking at things with rose colored glasses.

Your point is still valid...I view this draft as obtaining Jamal Adams...Dee Eskridge...Tre Brown and Gabe Jackson...with Stone Forsythe thrown in. Injuries have limited our view of what we got in Dee and Tre . Next draft I think we have a 2nd a 3rd (2)4ths (2)5ths and our 6th and 7th picks...hopefully good hunting and less gambling.

[Hawktawk]

Draft shmaft. We got the shaft .

This underperforming team is not simply without talent . We have a HOF QB and Mike and solid linebackers in general. I don’t believe our D line is chopped liver . A dominant wideout and a slot receiver as good as anyone . Our line grades middle of the pack , hardly the worst . Carson’s not healthy again making his contract look like a waste but with the way Collins looks he’s capable of hanging a hundred on lots of teams if the offense gets in a rhythm . We are overloaded at TE . We have 2 excellent safeties in Diggs and Adams although Adams seems clueless and gave up a 67 yard completion on a dying quail he could have picked had he looked for the ball. They still have not figured out how to use him and it’s looking like a horrible mistake if they don’t . But bottom line many teams would love to have many of our players . The team isn’t being prepared or coached properly . Aikman pointed out a play where half the D played zone and half man .it’s the second time at least it’s happened . It’s ineptitude by the coaches .