NFL Covid rule

[jshawaii22]

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/article252959583.html?

Here is a rare update on the Seahawks as it pertains to the 'team'. Although it's buried deep in the article, according to Pete, the Seahawks are closer to the top tier of teams then the bottom. No exact figures, but the team, especially Pete, has been pushing the unvaxed to get it done.

Above all, it will be a major competitive advantage to get it done in the next 2 weeks. I imagine that having to wear a 'scarlet letter' wristband around the camp and have to go through protocols 24/7 that only they have to go through will shame or frustrate the holdouts to get it done and sooner rather then later.

[RiverDog]

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/article252959583.html?

Here is a rare update on the Seahawks as it pertains to the 'team'. Although it's buried deep in the article, according to Pete, the Seahawks are closer to the top tier of teams then the bottom. No exact figures, but the team, especially Pete, has been pushing the unvaxed to get it done.

Above all, it will be a major competitive advantage to get it done in the next 2 weeks. I imagine that having to wear a 'scarlet letter' wristband around the camp and have to go through protocols 24/7 that only they have to go through will shame or frustrate the holdouts to get it done and sooner rather then later.

According to your link, 30 of the 32 teams are above 90% of their Tier 1 and Tier 2 players and coaches and the remaining two teams are at 85%, so it looks like the players are getting the message. I'd be shocked if there were more than 50 players league wide that refuse to get vaxxed.

On another related topic, I see where the VA has become the first federal agency to mandate that all of their employees get vaccinated. It's about time! These anti vaxxers, if left to their own devices, are going to screw this thing up and put us back to Square 1.

[Hawk Sista]

We still know very little about Covid, relatively speaking. For example, everyone in my family got it from my 88 year old Dad who caught it in the ER of all places. My elderly parents, two brothers and me all have had it. While my Mom has long haul impacts, that none of us croaked is as lucky as anything else. Dad has heart and kidney issues (big ones), Mom has a limiting lung disease, my brother and I have asthma & he has battled Valley Fever and its side effects for awhile. Genetics seem as big a culprit as any in who gets really ill and or dies. I read one study that discussed blood type having an impact. We all have the blood type least likely, per this particular study, to result in Covid illness & beyond.

All to say - more information is needed before we can conclude much of anything…save the efficacy of the vaccines. I’m just so pissed that people are being pig-headed about getting us back to life as we knew it… which more and more feels like it’s not even possible.

[jshawaii22]

According to your link, 30 of the 32 teams are above 90% of their Tier 1 and Tier 2 players and coaches and the remaining two teams are at 85%, so it looks like the players are getting the message. I'd be shocked if there were more than 50 players league wide that refuse to get vaxxed.

On another related topic, I see where the VA has become the first federal agency to mandate that all of their employees get vaccinated. It's about time! These anti vaxxers, if left to their own devices, are going to screw this thing up and put us back to Square 1.

RD, here is the articles quote. The coaches are all almost 100%, but not the players.

The NFL says more than half its teams have COVID-19 vaccination rates greater than 80% of their players. The league says more than 75% of players are in the process of being vaccinated.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=GBR

Here's a little data table to show world vaccination rates. United States is doing well. It takes time to vaccinate a nation. We're not that far behind the United Kingdom or Israel.

If we're not already doing it, we might help more by sending some vaccines abroad. The variants tend to be coming from poorer nations that have much higher rates of unvaccinated people. If we want to slow this down on a global level, we need to ramp up vaccination worldwide.

We need to remain calm and keep pushing.

[Aseahawkfan]

According to your link, 30 of the 32 teams are above 90% of their Tier 1 and Tier 2 players and coaches and the remaining two teams are at 85%, so it looks like the players are getting the message. I'd be shocked if there were more than 50 players league wide that refuse to get vaxxed.

On another related topic, I see where the VA has become the first federal agency to mandate that all of their employees get vaccinated. It's about time! These anti vaxxers, if left to their own devices, are going to screw this thing up and put us back to Square 1.

I think a lot of hospitals are requiring it. Kind of hard to justify not using a vaccine in a hospital environment. You're the highest risk it gets. What about your daughter's hospital? They requiring the vaccine yet?

We're not close to back to square 1. Calm down a little bit, man. We'll get where we need to get. It's not as easy to vaccinate a nation even in smaller places like Israel and The United Kingdom where they're more willing.

[RiverDog]

According to your link, 30 of the 32 teams are above 90% of their Tier 1 and Tier 2 players and coaches and the remaining two teams are at 85%, so it looks like the players are getting the message. I'd be shocked if there were more than 50 players league wide that refuse to get vaxxed.

On another related topic, I see where the VA has become the first federal agency to mandate that all of their employees get vaccinated. It's about time! These anti vaxxers, if left to their own devices, are going to screw this thing up and put us back to Square 1.

I think a lot of hospitals are requiring it. Kind of hard to justify not using a vaccine in a hospital environment. You're the highest risk it gets. What about your daughter's hospital? They requiring the vaccine yet?

We're not close to back to square 1. Calm down a little bit, man. We'll get where we need to get. It's not as easy to vaccinate a nation even in smaller places like Israel and The United Kingdom where they're more willing.

My daughter's employer, as of now, is not requiring that their care givers get the vaccine. But you're right, a lot of them, including prestigious hospitals like the Mayo Clinic, are requiring it, and a lot of medical organizations, the most prominent one being the American Medical Association, are now calling for mandatory vaccinations. Within the next month, I fully expect that the majority of hospitals and care giving locations to be requiring them.

I didn't say that we're close to going back to Square 1. I said that if left to their own devices, the anti vaxxers could very well put us back to where we started. We've just barely fully vaccinated 50% of our population, and that's no where near where we need to be. The Delta variant shows us just how much potential there is for this virus to get out of control again.

However, I do think that the tide is turning. If Biden would grow some balls and start leading instead of following by directing more government agencies to mandate vaccines, it would help set the tone for employers and organizations to require them. Surveys have shown that a significant part of the population will only get one if it is required. They don't even have to make it mandatory, just do like the NFL has done and make the protocols for the unvaccinated, ie testing, mask wearing, social distancing, etc, such a huge pain in the ass that people will choose to get the jab to avoid them.

[c_hawkbob]

The VA is now the federal agency to require vaccines (as they should IMO), I wonder how many more are to follow.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsole ... f98f29555b

[RiverDog]

The VA is now the federal agency to require vaccines (as they should IMO), I wonder how many more are to follow.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsole ... f98f29555b

I commented about that yesterday, but no biggie.

The VA was an easy one as it involves hospitals and care givers. It simply dove tails with other medical organizations and advocacy groups that are already mandating or recommending that all health care workers be required to get vaccinated. Some, like Houston Methodist, have been out in front of this for a month.

Other states and cities, such as California and NYC, are now requiring that ALL of their workers, including teachers, first responders, anyone that works for the government, to get the jab or face unpleasant protocols like mask wearing and weekly testing.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... uxbndlbing

The question is when will Biden get off his duff and order the federal government to take a similar stance?

As a football fan, I'm really proud of how the NFL has reacted. I think their stance has or will help other companies and organizations to get the courage to follow suit.

[jshawaii22]

Damn... way to go Seahawks players and coaches!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/28/pete-carroll-says-all-seahawks-coaching-staff-all-but-one-player-to-be-vaccinated/

[Aseahawkfan]

Damn... way to go Seahawks players and coaches!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/28/pete-carroll-says-all-seahawks-coaching-staff-all-but-one-player-to-be-vaccinated/

Hopefully this means Super Bowl.

[RiverDog]

Damn... way to go Seahawks players and coaches!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/28/pete-carroll-says-all-seahawks-coaching-staff-all-but-one-player-to-be-vaccinated/

Fantastic! Hats off to our coaching staff and players.

It's no coincidence that we were the only team not to have a positive Covid test last season and now we have all but one player with at least one jab. This is a huge feather in the cap for Pete. It shows just how much the players trust him and buy into his system.

[RiverDog]

However, I do think that the tide is turning. If Biden would grow some balls and start leading instead of following by directing more government agencies to mandate vaccines, it would help set the tone for employers and organizations to require them. Surveys have shown that a significant part of the population will only get one if it is required. They don't even have to make it mandatory, just do like the NFL has done and make the protocols for the unvaccinated, ie testing, mask wearing, social distancing, etc, such a huge pain in the ass that people will choose to get the jab to avoid them.

I gotta give credit where credit is due. Biden has finally mandated that all federal workers reveal their vaccination status and if they choose not to get vaccinated, that they have to follow a strict set of protocols. It's already caused many employers to consider a similar policy and will result in getting more needles into arms.

The next step is for him to order the military to add the Covid vaccines to the long list of vaccinations that all soldiers, sailors, and Marines must take. There is a precedent here. In the Gulf War, about 150,000 military personnel were required to be inoculated with the Anthrax vaccine even though it hadn't even been studied by the FDA as these current Covid vaccines have been, and they were not given an option if they didn't want to get one as is the case with the current federal policy on the Covid vaccines. It's a defense readiness, national security issue.

Once one of these vaccines gains full FDA approval, hopefully by September, it will give more companies and agencies an impetus to issue mandates for their employees.

[NorthHawk]

One can only imagine how quickly this Delta variant would sweep through a ship when people can't distance.
It's like a cruise ship but with more at stake.

[RiverDog]

One can only imagine how quickly this Delta variant would sweep through a ship when people can't distance.
It's like a cruise ship but with more at stake.

Imagine being on a submarine and have one sailor infected with the Delta variant. Everyone would contract the virus at the same time and a good percentage incapacitated at the same time. That's why I don't understand why the military hasn't long ago mandated vaccines.

I read an interesting article this morning in the NYT. I can't provide a link, but it mentioned how this virus is doing some crazy, unexplained things. In India, for example, despite being largely unvaccinated, cases have plummeted over the past two months, and a similar drop is now being seen in England. The variant seems to run out of steam after a period of time.

[c_hawkbob]

Imagine being on a submarine and have one sailor infected with the Delta variant

It seems insane to me with the amount of vaccinations required of us when I was on submarines that this vaccine of all would suddenly be voluntary ... how the hell did that happen?! (I actually think I know, given the Commander in Chief when the virus hit).

[RiverDog]

Imagine being on a submarine and have one sailor infected with the Delta variant

It seems insane to me with the amount of vaccinations required of us when I was on submarines that this vaccine of all would suddenly be voluntary ... how the hell did that happen?! (I actually think I know, given the Commander in Chief when the virus hit).

10-4 on that!

Just curious, but were you part of the 150K that had to take the Anthrax vaccine during the first Gulf War? That one generated a whole lot of controversy, and I'm wondering if that experience has anything to do with the reluctance of the military to add the Covid vaccine to the list of required inoculations.

[c_hawkbob]

Just curious, but were you part of the 150K that had to take the Anthrax vaccine during the first Gulf War? That one generated a whole lot of controversy, and I'm wondering if that experience has anything to do with the reluctance of the military to add the Covid vaccine to the list of required inoculations.

No, I got out in 1982. No action except on liberty and no war but the cold war (but as a Boomer sailor I was on the front lines of that one!)

[RiverDog]

Just curious, but were you part of the 150K that had to take the Anthrax vaccine during the first Gulf War? That one generated a whole lot of controversy, and I'm wondering if that experience has anything to do with the reluctance of the military to add the Covid vaccine to the list of required inoculations.

No, I got out in 1982. No action except on liberty and no war but the cold war (but as a Boomer sailor I was on the front lines of that one!)

By "Boomer sailor", I assume that you aren't referring to your generational status but rather that you were on a missile boat.

I'm still wondering out loud if the experience the military had with mandating the Anthrax vaccine is influencing their hesitancy to mandate the Covid jab.

[c_hawkbob]

Yes, 'Boomers' are Ballistic Missile Submarines. I served on two o them SSBN's 610 and 611. Dinosaurs now, the first generation Polaris class boats.

[RiverDog]

Yes, 'Boomers' are Ballistic Missile Submarines. I served on two o them SSBN's 610 and 611. Dinosaurs now, the first generation Polaris class boats.

And as a person that has never served, I owe a special debt of gratitude to you. Thank You for your service!

[c_hawkbob]

You're more than welcome. I'm no hero though, I joined for predominantly selfish reason; to see the world and to get a marketable life skill, which is exactly what I did. Guys like Greg (most may remember him as IishGreg) that devoted his life to it and accomplished so very much and saw actual action on multiple occasions are the one's that deserve all of our gratitude.

[RiverDog]

You're more than welcome. I'm no hero though, I joined for predominantly selfish reason; to s the world nd to get a marketable life skill, which is exactly what I did. Guys like Greg (most may remember him as IishGreg) that devoted his life to it and accomplished so very much and saw actual action on multiple occasions are the one's that deserve all of our gratitude.

I get your point and appreciate your humility, but I wasn't comparing your service to those like IG that devoted 30 years of their lives to the cause. I was comparing your sacrifice to that of my own. During the time you were under the waves staring down the Russkies, I was out chasing poontang.

[Aseahawkfan]

By "Boomer sailor", I assume that you aren't referring to your generational status but rather that you were on a missile boat.

I'm still wondering out loud if the experience the military had with mandating the Anthrax vaccine is influencing their hesitancy to mandate the Covid jab.

The Anthrax Vaccine from what I recall did have some pretty serious side effects.

From what I understand, you can refuse the vaccine even in the military. You'll suffer severe consequences, but you can do it. You might even be dishonorably discharged, but you can refuse.

It's been 7 almost 8 months since the vaccine was approved. I don't know why you're so hot to mandate it when we're at 49% and rising. Give it a little more time to push through. The eligibility for people under 50 opened up in mid April, which means it has been about 3 and a half months. Let's see where we are in a few more months and possibly the end of the year before we start making this a mandate.

You are really wanting to push this on people or fire them or punish them. At 49% of the nation you'll only create headaches trying to push this on the other 50% which is more than sufficient to launch a full on rebellion against vaccination if needed that would not be controllable. This isn't like we already have 70% vaccinated and we're trying to get the last 30%. This is full on half the nation. If half the nation rebels against this, the nation will shut down.

I think it would be much smarter to reach 65 to 70% vaccination before I start thinking I can force a mandate.

During our debate we did find out vaccines can be mandated, but we also found out not at gunpoint and not by people physically manhandling them. I'm pretty sure kicking 50% of the nation out of public spaces, firing them, or denying them access to stores isn't going to work real well. That's well over a 150 million people you'll have to punish and that number is way too high.

[RiverDog]

From what I understand, you can refuse the vaccine even in the military. You'll suffer severe consequences, but you can do it. You might even be dishonorably discharged, but you can refuse.

I think that's true, but I wouldn't swear to it. Someone like Cbob needs to weigh in on it.

It's been 7 almost 8 months since the vaccine was approved. I don't know why you're so hot to mandate it when we're at 49% and rising. Give it a little more time to push through. The eligibility for people under 50 opened up in mid April, which means it has been about 3 and a half months. Let's see where we are in a few more months and possibly the end of the year before we start making this a mandate.

You are really wanting to push this on people or fire them or punish them. At 49% of the nation you'll only create headaches trying to push this on the other 50% which is more than sufficient to launch a full on rebellion against vaccination if needed that would not be controllable. This isn't like we already have 70% vaccinated and we're trying to get the last 30%. This is full on half the nation. If half the nation rebels against this, the nation will shut down.

I think it would be much smarter to reach 65 to 70% vaccination before I start thinking I can force a mandate.

During our debate we did find out vaccines can be mandated, but we also found out not at gunpoint and not by people physically manhandling them. I'm pretty sure kicking 50% of the nation out of public spaces, firing them, or denying them access to stores isn't going to work real well. That's well over a 150 million people you'll have to punish and that number is way too high.

I really don't care what their reaction is going to be. All I care about is getting needles into arms. If that means causing an uproar amongst 20 or 30 percent of the population, then so be it. The way I see it, by my getting the vaccine I'm taking a risk that others are unwilling to take and as a result, I'm protecting the anti vaxxers from the disease.

My wife has MS and rheumatoid arthritis, auto immune diseases. My niece is a transplant recipient, having had kidney replacement surgery when she was a teenager. Both have taken the vaccine, but they may not work in those situations, and if they do contract Covid, the likelihood of a bad outcome is higher. These anti vaxxers are directly threatening my family and my livelihood with their insolence. You do not have the right to threaten my life or those of my loved ones. As the saying goes, your freedom stops where my nose begins, a very literal analogy in this situation.

Our two counties, Benton and Franklin, are experiencing a severe outbreak as we have the lowest vaccination rate in the state. The ICU's at our largest hospital is nearly full with 80% being Covid patients. Nurses are quitting because they're burned out and demoralized. If I have a heart attack, I'm likely to be transferred to a hospital outside of our region, if I survive the ambulance ride. How much patience do you want me to have?

https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/we-are ... rD4IZBcHxQ

Last night in a chat with my former boss, now the production manager of a facility that employs around 600 in Franklin County, he said that they are offering a $250 bonus to all employees that get the jab yet they only have 30 something percent vaccinated. The carrot isn't working. Time for the stick.

[c_hawkbob]

I have no idea how it is now, or even in the 90's when the anthrax vaccine was being used, but when I was in such 'choices' were a very early in your enlistment thing. Once you're out of boot camp and maybe at schools (when you're not yet attached to a command) it was fairly easy to raise your hand and say "I'm out" and leave with a general discharge, but once you were attached to a ship, and especially at sea your choices became very limited. I do not remember there ever being an optional component to shots at all (other than maybe "or my foot up your arse and then get the damn shot!" They sure weren't about to come off of patrol, navigate to neutral waters and helovac your pansy arse off the boat because you didn't want to get a shot. But the 70's and early 80's we different times.

[Aseahawkfan]

I really don't care what their reaction is going to be. All I care about is getting needles into arms. If that means causing an uproar amongst 20 or 30 percent of the population, then so be it. The way I see it, by my getting the vaccine I'm taking a risk that others are unwilling to take and as a result, I'm protecting the anti vaxxers from the disease.

My wife has MS and rheumatoid arthritis, auto immune diseases. My niece is a transplant recipient, having had kidney replacement surgery when she was a teenager. Both have taken the vaccine, but they may not work in those situations, and if they do contract Covid, the likelihood of a bad outcome is higher. These anti vaxxers are directly threatening my family and my livelihood with their insolence. You do not have the right to threaten my life or those of my loved ones. As the saying goes, your freedom stops where my nose begins, a very literal analogy in this situation.

Our two counties, Benton and Franklin, are experiencing a severe outbreak as we have the lowest vaccination rate in the state. The ICU's at our largest hospital is nearly full with 80% being Covid patients. Nurses are quitting because they're burned out and demoralized. If I have a heart attack, I'm likely to be transferred to a hospital outside of our region, if I survive the ambulance ride. How much patience do you want me to have?

Last night in a chat with my former boss, now the production manager of a facility that employs around 600 in Franklin County, he said that they are offering a $250 bonus to all employees that get the jab yet they only have 30 something percent vaccinated. The carrot isn't working. Time for the stick.

If even 20 or 30% rebel, that is 60 to 90 million people. You cannot physically force them to take the vaccine as in you can't put a gun to their head and force them to take the vaccine. Your options are to fire them from their job or push them out of public spaces. Do you think this economy can take job losses in the 60 to 90 million range and still function well? If you force 60 to 90 million people out of work, out of public spaces, off buses, and generally out of society, will your society function?

This is a balancing act at the moment and 49% is not a good enough number to force mandates on the other 51%. It's good the NFL had a much higher rate of vaccine acceptance, but if 50% of players had opted out of playing in the NFL including 50% of the top QBs and players the NFL would not have a NFL season. They would have shut down. And it would have been extremely bad.

Once we hit 60 to 70% vaccination rate, you can start applying greater pressure. I would start smaller like they are doing with medical personnel. Medical personnel makes sense because they respond to highly contagious and very sick and vulnerable people. Then start moving up the chain slowly if a mandate is working.

I wouldn't put out some federal mandate trying to force 50% of Americans to get vaccinated all at once when if they decide to call me on that mandate, I can't enforce it. If they all decide to protest by walking out of their jobs and marching like BLM, they'll rip the nation apart.

Though a part of me wants to see how much these tough talkers will step up once they are called to take their stand. I have more than a few tough talkers at my job who say they will walk out if forced to get the vaccine by their employers. I want to see how tough they are when it comes to a decision of take this highly safe and effective vaccine or lose their high paying job. Will they really walk away from this kind of money thinking they can find another job that pays the same easy or will they take the jab? Maybe we should test that stick just to see how tough these people are.

But at the same time, if they do stand up they'll rip America apart at a very bad time. And I'm patient. I think we can get to 65 to 70% by the end of the year without a bunch of severe mandates. Though I might still target a few groups for a vaccine mandate in the medical and emergency response sector and the hospitality and restaurant sector who deal a lot with the public. You really want a high rate of vaccination for places where a lot of people congregate. If the hermits and work from home tech people want to act like fools, you can bring them in later.

[Aseahawkfan]

I really don't care what their reaction is going to be. All I care about is getting needles into arms. If that means causing an uproar amongst 20 or 30 percent of the population, then so be it. The way I see it, by my getting the vaccine I'm taking a risk that others are unwilling to take and as a result, I'm protecting the anti vaxxers from the disease.

My wife has MS and rheumatoid arthritis, auto immune diseases. My niece is a transplant recipient, having had kidney replacement surgery when she was a teenager. Both have taken the vaccine, but they may not work in those situations, and if they do contract Covid, the likelihood of a bad outcome is higher. These anti vaxxers are directly threatening my family and my livelihood with their insolence. You do not have the right to threaten my life or those of my loved ones. As the saying goes, your freedom stops where my nose begins, a very literal analogy in this situation.

Our two counties, Benton and Franklin, are experiencing a severe outbreak as we have the lowest vaccination rate in the state. The ICU's at our largest hospital is nearly full with 80% being Covid patients. Nurses are quitting because they're burned out and demoralized. If I have a heart attack, I'm likely to be transferred to a hospital outside of our region, if I survive the ambulance ride. How much patience do you want me to have?

https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/we-are ... rD4IZBcHxQ

Last night in a chat with my former boss, now the production manager of a facility that employs around 600 in Franklin County, he said that they are offering a $250 bonus to all employees that get the jab yet they only have 30 something percent vaccinated. The carrot isn't working. Time for the stick.

Well, if it were me, I'd look at those nurses and doctors and say, "Help only the vaccinated people. Let the unvaccinated die."

I'd look at a person refusing to get vaccinated on life support or severely sick and tell them straight to their face, "You made a choice, you're going to die with that choice more than likely. I hope you feel good about it. You were told this vaccine worked. We have clear numbers it worked. If you want to watch news stations over listening to medical experts, then you deserve what you get. You're an idiot and idiots like turkeys who don't know better than to stop themselves from drowning when it rains die."

I think that all these unvaccinated tough talkers need some tough talk and they need to be low priority for hospital beds and treatment from doctors and nurses. They made a choice that they keep demanding that they get to make. So they need to accept the consequences of their choice and the medical system and government needs to let them know that clearly by refusing them service as they refused the vaccine. Let them stay at home and suffer the consequences of their choice.

I'm not sure why people get to make this tough talking choice about not taking the vaccine, but somehow get to eat their cake too and get medical service because they made a bad choice. Freedom as they say isn't free. If you freely choose not to take a highly safe and effective vaccine that 150 million plus Americans have taken with a high level of success, then you get to live with your choice like you demanded. Why exactly have Americans forgotten this is the benefit and the consequences of the freedom they demand? You get a choice, but have to live with the consequences like getting COVID and dying from it.

It's real simple. Hospitals should prioritize caring for vaccinated patients who have a much higher rate of survival and used their freedom of choice to help the nation, not hinder it. Unvaccinated people have made a choice to harm the nation with their choice, they should be low priority for assistance as they have chosen to accept the consequences of not taking the vaccine. The risk of harm is far lower taking the vaccine than not taking it. Society has agreed to assist those at risk of taking the vaccine and people not taking the vaccine have chosen to take on the risk of not taking the vaccine. So abide by the choices of both groups. People who get the vaccine and still get sick get medical assistance as they have taken on the risk of the vaccine and still gotten sick. People who have refused the vaccine have accept the risk of getting sick and dying, they should be lower priority for medical assistance.

That is how I would do it. I would prioritize groups by their choices and the consequences of those choices.

[c_hawkbob]

People hat refuse to get vaccinated should be refused medical care for covid infection unless they pay in full up front. Let them pay for their obstinance instead of being a burden on the rest of us.

[RiverDog]

People hat refuse to get vaccinated should be refused medical care for covid infection unless they pay in full up front. Let them pay for their obstinance instead of being a burden on the rest of us.

I was just going to mention something similar. If they refuse a vaccination, then by all rights, they should be paying higher insurance premiums as they are at more risk of being hospitalized than someone that is fully vaccinated. I see no difference between that and a smoker's premium. If my former employer started deducting an extra $50 per pay period for vaccine refusal, they'd start reconsidering their decision.

In addition, similar to policies regarding transplants where they prioritize recipients based on whether or not it was a 'controllable issue', like alcohol induced liver disease taking a back seat vs. one where the recipient had no control over, ICU units should not allow their beds to fill beyond a certain point in order to reserve them for emergencies like traffic accidents and heart attacks. Also, they should not defer optional surgeries in favor of unvaccinated Covid patients. Bottom line is that they should not be subjecting other patients to a risk they would not have had to assume had it not been for these unvaccinated Covid patients.

As you can tell, I've lost any patience I might have had with these fools.

[NorthHawk]

I feel a GET OFF MY LAWN moment coming on...

[RiverDog]

I feel a GET OFF MY LAWN moment coming on...

Yeah, no kidding. And it works both ways. One of my FB friends, an avowed anti-vaxxer, posted a big, bold message: "If you don't like my not being vaccinated, then get the F away from me." And I saw a tee shirt that read: "No Mask, No Vaccine, No Fear".

This vaccine thing has become a full fledged culture war except that it involves several different, diverse groups besides the hard core Trumpbots: Blacks, Hispanics, Millennials, etc.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, no kidding. And it works both ways. One of my FB friends, an avowed anti-vaxxer, posted a big, bold message: "If you don't like my not being vaccinated, then get the F away from me." And I saw a tee shirt that read: "No Mask, No Vaccine, No Fear".

This vaccine thing has become a full fledged culture war except that it involves several different, diverse groups besides the hard core Trumpbots: Blacks, Hispanics, Millennials, etc.

I feel like telling them, "Your taxes paid to fund a vaccine program to beat a virus killing people on a global level started by a Republican president you voted for. This program produces one of the most effective vaccines in history in record time that has proven to be one of the safest vaccines created. The vaccination program is being paid for by your tax dollars so you can get it for free almost everywhere. It's highly effective and can be sold for exorbitant fees in foreign nations without the money to pay for this kind of vaccine technology. It's reduced your death rate per month from 146,000 to 7,000, a 1400 percent drop in deaths. And it's allowing us to reopen and return to normal. And you're too stupid to take it because you feel like you're being pressured? You fall into the too stupid to live category."

This is exactly why Americans are viewed poorly. We get this immense privilege of living in the wealthiest nation on earth with access to nearly every benefit and advanced technology such a nation provides, yet too many Americans don't take advantage of their immense privilege instead fabricating conspiracy and foolishness in their mind. It's an astounding level of ignorance.

[RiverDog]

I feel like telling them, "Your taxes paid to fund a vaccine program to beat a virus killing people on a global level started by a Republican president you voted for. This program produces one of the most effective vaccines in history in record time that has proven to be one of the safest vaccines created. The vaccination program is being paid for by your tax dollars so you can get it for free almost everywhere. It's highly effective and can be sold for exorbitant fees in foreign nations without the money to pay for this kind of vaccine technology. It's reduced your death rate per month from 146,000 to 7,000, a 1400 percent drop in deaths. And it's allowing us to reopen and return to normal. And you're too stupid to take it because you feel like you're being pressured? You fall into the too stupid to live category."

This is exactly why Americans are viewed poorly. We get this immense privilege of living in the wealthiest nation on earth with access to nearly every benefit and advanced technology such a nation provides, yet too many Americans don't take advantage of their immense privilege instead fabricating conspiracy and foolishness in their mind. It's an astounding level of ignorance.

The other difference between the US and many countries in the rest of the world is that we have failed to issue a universal vaccine passport. IMO it was a mistake for Biden to have tossed this into the laps of private industry.

[NorthHawk]

We're still arguing about vaccine passports up here, too.
It seems to make common sense that a universal standard of passport be created so as to re-build the international tourism industry.
Unfortunately when politics is involved common sense often takes a vacation.

[RiverDog]

We're still arguing about vaccine passports up here, too.
It seems to make common sense that a universal standard of passport be created so as to re-build the international tourism industry.
Unfortunately when politics is involved common sense often takes a vacation.

There's countries in western Europe that are having problems with them, too.

I don't think it unreasonable for me to request something from my government more than an easily faked, flimsy piece of paper for me to prove my vaccination status to anyone that I choose to show it to.

[jshawaii22]

Here's the latest NFLPA and NFL negotiated Covid mandatory testing, etc. as of 8-30-2021, 10 days before the season kicks-off.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/30/nfl-nflpa-agree-to-weekly-covid-testing-for-vaccinated-players-and-staff/

[RiverDog]

Here's the latest NFLPA and NFL negotiated Covid mandatory testing, etc. as of 8-30-2021, 10 days before the season kicks-off.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/30/nfl-nflpa-agree-to-weekly-covid-testing-for-vaccinated-players-and-staff/

Considering that the vaccines aren't quite as effective at preventing infection vs. the Delta variant and that vaccinated people can spread the disease, it's a smart move to increase their testing frequency.

What they need to do is come up with a comprehensive plan for fans in attendance at games. I would at least like to see them have designated sections for unvaccinated, perhaps the 600 level off the end zone.

[RiverDog]

If the rest of the country would act like the Seahawks, who were the only NFL team not to have a positive Covid case and who as a team and organization are near 100% vaccinated, our country would be in one helluva lot better shape than it is today:

The Seattle Seahawks will require proof of COVID-19 vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test within 72 hours of entry into Lumen Field for fans over the age of 12 at home games this season, the club announced Tuesday.

Club policy also will require masking for fans, regardless of vaccination status, in accordance with local and state mask mandates. An exception will be made for eating and drinking while sitting in a stationary location.

In order to work, Lumen Field staff will be under the same requirement. As of this week, King County is requiring masking for anyone age 5 or older at outdoor gatherings of 500-plus people, as well as in public indoor spaces.

The Seahawks' Lumen Field is the first open-air NFL venue to make this requirement. Domed facilities for the Las Vegas Raiders (Allegiant Stadium) and the New Orleans Saints (Caesars Superdome) previously established similar policies.

https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-to-re ... -test-prio