O.T.: Zags on to Monday

[jshawaii22]

What a great OT game tonight. Instant classic. Rumors of the demise of WC basketball need to look no further than this game and the rest of the tourney.
Zags looking to go undefeated and win the NCAA on Monday night.

[RiverDog]

Best basketball game that I've watched in I don't know how long. Living in eastern Washington, we're huge Zag fans, and I had convinced myself that they were destined to lose that game because they hadn't played under the pressure of a close game all season. What a thrill when that Hail Mary shot went in!

However, that last shot wouldn't have counted in H-O-R-S-E as you have to call your banks.

[Hawk Sista]

What an awesome game!! Best game i e watched in awhile. I’m nervous about Baylor though.

[c_hawkbob]

Extremely high quality basketball from both teams last night! just awesome!

And frankly Sis I'm less concerned now than I was before last night's game, now they've tasted their own blood so to speak and shown the mettle to hold their own in a slugfest and keep on swinging! Before they hadn't been tested all year, now they know what they're capable of when the going get's tough.

[RiverDog]

And frankly Sis I'm less concerned now than I was before last night's game, now they've tasted their own blood so to speak and shown the mettle to hold their own in a slugfest and keep on swinging! Before they hadn't been tested all year, now they know what they're capable of when the going get's tough.

I'm of that same opinion. My biggest fear has been that they've won so many games by double digits (all but one this season prior to last night) that they might not be able to deal with end of the game pressure. Now that they've gone through a big time scare and then some, they should be a little more capable of dealing with it should Monday's game present a similar challenge.

Baylor looked fantastic last night. I wouldn't want to put a lot of money on either team.

[Aseahawkfan]

That final shot was legendary.

[TriCitySam]

Amazing game. UCLA played very well and what an ending!

[obiken]

Damn the ASU Stanford Woman's championship was a Classic as well! Congrats Cards!

[Hawk Sista]

Well, SHI+!

[Aseahawkfan]

One game and it all ends. Still a great season for Gonzaga.

[obiken]

Well, SHI+!

Well you kind of called it, too much energy expended beating UCLA.

[RiverDog]

Actually I wasn't surprised at the beat down. Both teams had enough talent to blow the other one out. I wouldn't have wanted to bet any money on the outcome of that game as I didn't have a clue as to who would win let alone the point spread.

The two deciding factors were Baylor's 3 point shooting and their offensive rebounding. They jumped out to a 10 point lead 5 minutes into the game and Gonzaga never recovered.

[Hawk Sista]

The Zags were out matched, plain and simple. Not because they were tired, not because of the emotional game on Saturday against the Bruins, but because that Baylor squad is legit! The Zags came out flat, but it wasn’t just that; sadly, the better team won. The Bears were the best team in college basketball this year, clearly. It was heartbreaking to see it play out as I feared it would. It was not even close. Still, congratulations to the Zags on a great season!! There is no shame on them from me.

[RiverDog]

The Zags were out matched, plain and simple. Not because they were tired, not because of the emotional game on Saturday against the Bruins, but because that Baylor squad is legit! The Zags came out flat, but it wasn’t just that; sadly, the better team won. The Bears were the best team in college basketball this year, clearly. It was heartbreaking to see it play out as I feared it would. It was not even close. Still, congratulations to the Zags on a great season!! There is no shame on them from me.

Although I agree that the UCLA game had little if anything to do with Monday's outcome and it was obvious that Baylor was the better team yesterday, I don't agree that they were heads and shoulders the better team overall, not with the kind of talent the Zags have on their roster.

The Zags started the first 5 minutes of the game scoring just one point, and so long as Baylor kept hitting their 3's and getting the offensive rebounds like they did, there was very little chance for a come back.

[trents]

Seems like baskeball, whether college or pro, has turned into mostly a three point shooting contest. If they're falling for you and not the other team then you'll likely bury them. Makes for just too much floor space for a defense to cover.

[obiken]

Seems like baskeball, whether college or pro, has turned into mostly a three point shooting contest. If they're falling for you and not the other team then you'll likely bury them. Makes for just too much floor space for a defense to cover.

No question, its been a 3 point league for a long time. Thats why Westbrook is not nearly as valuable as Lillard or Harden, he cant shoot 3's. The scary thing is what would the old guys have done with the 3 pointers? IE West, Fred Brown, or the Big O.

[trents]

The other thing that makes it a nightmare for defenses is that so many bigs now are proficient outside shooters and passers. If your big comes out to the perimeter to defend their big they just run a quick guard into the post and shoot a pass to him for a quick bucket.

[RiverDog]

The other thing that makes it a nightmare for defenses is that so many bigs now are proficient outside shooters and passers. If your big comes out to the perimeter to defend their big they just run a quick guard into the post and shoot a pass to him for a quick bucket.

The 3 point shot has opened up offenses, forcing defenses to spread out and cover the 3 point arch. This has allowed big men to step away from the key area and open up passing lanes. There's always been big men with very good passing ability. Bill Walton, Willis Reed, Jack Sikma, Bill Russell, et al were very good passing big men, and who knows how good they would have been at shooting the 3 ball if they had the opportunity. But with half court offense so packed in, teams wanted their bigs under the boards banging bodies for rebounds rather than venturing out to the perimeter for a shot that yields no more points than a lay in.

[Hawktawk]

Yes it was a great year . Yes the zags did become the first team since 79 to reach the title game unbeaten . Still the game wasn’t as close as the score and was miles further apart from the talent level . The zags beat both the teams that beat Baylor this year . They had 3 wooden watch candidates on the floor at the same time , a top pick at point . They had the most fundamentally sound back to the basket big in college this year . They had the coach of the year .
My zags choked . They came out flat and got stomped on . They had no fight , unforced errors , no answers . Could not shoot or defend the three . Not blocking out from the first shot . They choked . # 1 ranked all year and already ranked # 1 for next year . Talent was not the difference . Blame UCLA all you want . It was close because the zags were already letting down . It was tied at the end of OT because Kispert didn’t block out .

It’s time to win it all or no more excuses .

[RiverDog]

Yes it was a great year . Yes the zags did become the first team since 79 to reach the title game unbeaten . Still the game wasn’t as close as the score and was miles further apart from the talent level . The zags beat both the teams that beat Baylor this year . They had 3 wooden watch candidates on the floor at the same time , a top pick at point . They had the most fundamentally sound back to the basket big in college this year . They had the coach of the year .
My zags choked . They came out flat and got stomped on . They had no fight , unforced errors , no answers . Could not shoot or defend the three . Not blocking out from the first shot . They choked . # 1 ranked all year and already ranked # 1 for next year . Talent was not the difference . Blame UCLA all you want . It was close because the zags were already letting down . It was tied at the end of OT because Kispert didn’t block out .

It’s time to win it all or no more excuses .

I was pretty disappointed in Kispert's play, too. His 3 point shooting seemed like it was off during the tourney.

But I'm not going to characterize their performance as a 'choke'. IMO choking is failing in a critical, singular moment, like Scott Norwood missing a game winning FG in the Super Bowl. The Zags didn't get close enough to choke. For whatever reason, the Zags were not ready to play.

And let's not take anything away from Baylor. They played their absolute best in both Final Four games, blowing out a very good Houston team in addition to handing the Zags their only loss of the season. They deserved every ounce of that championship trophy.

[obiken]

I was pretty disappointed in Kispert's play, too. His 3 point shooting seemed like it was off during the tourney.

But I'm not going to characterize their performance as a 'choke'. IMO choking is failing in a critical, singular moment, like Scott Norwood missing a game winning FG in the Super Bowl. The Zags didn't get close enough to choke. For whatever reason, the Zags were not ready to play.

And let's not take anything away from Baylor. They played their absolute best in both Final Four games, blowing out a very good Houston team in addition to handing the Zags their only loss of the season. They deserved every ounce of that championship trophy.

The number one and two teams in the country all year, played for the title. Sure Zags were tired and a little off, but like Sister said, Baylor was just stronger, faster, bigger, higher, etc. IF they played 7 games like the NBA, Baylor would have won in 6, max.

[RiverDog]

The number one and two teams in the country all year, played for the title. Sure Zags were tired and a little off, but like Sister said, Baylor was just stronger, faster, bigger, higher, etc. IF they played 7 games like the NBA, Baylor would have won in 6, max.

Baylor would have won 6 out of 7 games? I wouldn't want to bet any kind of money on that outcome. I've seen way too many upsets, like Oral Roberts beating Ohio State, to make that kind of proclamation.

There wasn't that much of a talent gap between Gonzaga and Baylor. There were three common opponents, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Kansas. The Zags were 3-0 against those teams, Baylor 2-1. I'm not by any means arguing that the Zags were the better team, just that the teams were much more evenly matched than that one game would indicate.

One thing that seemed apparent in this tourney was that the seeding wasn't nearly as reflective of relative team strengths as it has been in the past. Lots more lower seeds winning games, or at least that was my impression. The season, like most sports, was turned upside down by the pandemic.

[Hawk Sista]

The way both teams were playing come tournament time, I’d say the Zags would win about 20-30% of the time. Sorry, that’s how I see it. The thing that makes it tough is that they do have the best coach and are likely the second best team we have seen in many years. It just so happens to be at the same when Baylor was better.

[RiverDog]

The way both teams were playing come tournament time, I’d say the Zags would win about 20-30% of the time. Sorry, that’s how I see it. The thing that makes it tough is that they do have the best coach and are likely the second best team we have seen in many years. It just so happens to be at the same when Baylor was better.

I could handle 30%, or one game in three or four, so long as you toss in the caveat of "tournament time". But that's a little different than Obi's one in seven, which is about what you'd expect out of a bottom tier team.

Some people forget that until that night, the Zags had won 35 straight games, which included a number of top 25 teams. All but two of those wins were by double digits. One game doesn't make them dog chit.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah 35 straight . Most by 10 or more points . It’s what made the other night so ugly and nauseating . Beaten down. No fight . Stars were absent . If they play like that Baylor would sweep them best of 7.

[c_hawkbob]

Beat down in one game doesn't at all mean that it would be a beat down every time. If you believe that you haven't watched enough 7 game series. I do believe Baylor would have won the series but I don't believe this single game can be considered a fair indication of the relative strength of the two teams. Some games just get away from you.

[Hawktawk]

Beat down in one game doesn't at all mean that it would be a beat down every time. If you believe that you haven't watched enough 7 game series. I do believe Baylor would have won the series but I don't believe this single game can be considered a fair indication of the relative strength of the two teams. Some games just get away from you.

Fair enough Bob . I suppose . It’s not a 7 game series though . Every man on the floor and both coaches knew what was at stake and one was ready and one wasn’t to the point it’s the worst game they have played since their ugly loss to St Marie’s in 2019. It was the biggest game of their lives and I’ll never buy the talent angle . It was about fundamental basketball and desire . And a winning game plan .

[RiverDog]

Beat down in one game doesn't at all mean that it would be a beat down every time. If you believe that you haven't watched enough 7 game series. I do believe Baylor would have won the series but I don't believe this single game can be considered a fair indication of the relative strength of the two teams. Some games just get away from you.

This.

Plus not only are some talking about sweeping a 7 game series, which would mean winning 4 straight games and rarely happens in any sport (it's happened 7 times in 30 years in the World Series, 4 times in 30 years in the NBA Championships), they're talking about 6 out of 7.

The Zags might lose 4 of their starting 5 to the NBA this season. Junior guard Joel Ayayi just declared and 3 others, Kispert, Timme, and Suggs, have all been talked about as possible lottery selections. Like I said, they're not dog chit.

[govandals]

Living in Spokane for 36 years I may be a bit jaded, but here is my take:
Baylor was better that night. Not even close.
Gonzaga was shell shocked out of the gate and never recovered.
Baylor's offensive rebounding and 3 pt percentage would be hard to replicate again.
Best of 7? Baylor in 6, maybe 7 if Zags shoot well. Baylor was well rounded, well coached and more athletic.

The loss of Tommy Lloyd may hurt the Zags international recruiting.

Chet Holmgren is a huge get, though. Dang, he is a skinny kid!

[RiverDog]

Baylor's offensive rebounding and 3 pt percentage would be hard to replicate again.

Baylor led the nation in 3 point FG percentage at .418%. Against the Zags, they were 10-23 from 3 point range, or .435%, so they most certainly could replicate their championship performance.

But I agree that their offensive rebounding was critical.