Pete's Management Style

[RiverDog]

It's the offseason, so why not start out a thread on something controversial to liven things up around here.

I fully acknowledge that Pete's been very successful and that he's without a doubt the best HC that we've had here in the 40 year history of our franchise and is one of the best if not the best defensive minds of his era.

But there's a downside. Ever since his days at USC, he's had this penchant for not paying attention to details or not having enough respect for rules that he may consider to be incidental or unimportant. In the past, his program at USC suffered some of the most severe sanctions issued by the NCAA, his Seahawk teams have players that have been hit with PED violations, and most recently, we have lost one draft pick, our 5th, due to an OTA violation and quite possibly could lose another via the non reporting of Richard Sherman's injury late this season.

This stuff is having a cumulative effect. In a league with such a dynamic game and with parity having created the most competitive game in professional sports, losing two draft picks to Pete or his surrogates inattention to detail is hurting our chances of restocking our roster with talent.

[NorthHawk]

Did we lose another pick this year or was there one another year too?

It's a game where the smallest advantage can give the highest reward, so he plays (or coaches) as close to the line as he can.
It's interesting the Sowell said a while ago after we lost the pick for the practice contact that he's been to much more physical camps than ours so I take from that the problem (for a lack of a better term) is wider spread than us.
Perhaps his reputation has put more of a spotlight on him than others, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me as it's human nature and nobody is completely objective.

I have more problems with his OC, time management, and challenge flags within games than how he coaches in OTC and TC, but they have to tighten things up if they are being observed closer than other teams.

[RiverDog]

Did we lose another pick this year or was there one another year too?

We lost our #5 pick due to the OTA violation from last spring, and there's a chance we could lose a pick due to not reporting Sherman's injury, some saying as high as a #2. The problem is that this isn't the first time Pete's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

The challenge flags aren't directly on Pete's shoulders. He's getting bad advice from upstairs. I don't have a huge problem with Pete's game management decisions. Sure, I didn't like the fake punt in the Rams game or his pulling all the starters in the 4th quarter of the Niners games, but those didn't hurt us. Losing these picks does hurt.

I guess Pete's management style reflects his personality. He seems to be care free, sort of an anarchist, a laid back California beach bum wearing sandals and beads, kind of reminds me of a Cheech and Chong act. The players undoubtedly like playing for him because of it and the net effect is still on the positive side, but there are times that it bites us in the ass.

[Hawktawk]

It's a fair question RD. Of course it needs to be qualified with the true statement that he's our best ever and I will always be grateful for what he's brought us.

But it isn't 2013 anymore. I agree with North that the fascination with Bevfool is mystifying .

The admission of a significant rules violation on a radio show makes me wonder if he was hitting the 502 legal quite honestly.

The repeated violations of practice rules place a bullseye on the team and the history of PED use surrounding him from his USC days leads to constant testing and harassment of the players .

The stubborn refusal to consider any strategic adjustments to his defense has resulted in disastrous outings in the divisional round 2 years in a row following a dreadful 4th quarter in super bowl 49 on both sides of the ball.

Where do we go from here? There's a ton of talent in its prime. Is getting blown out in the divisional round good enough?
I defer to Irish gregs article particularly as it pertains to a needed attitude adjustment . It's the biggest obstacle to getting back to and winning the big game. If you aren't adjusting and moving forward you're going backwards.

[Hawktawk]

Along the same lines Luke Willson is reportedly not happy that Pete made public comments about a contract offer having been made during the season because willson didn't see it as an official offer or a serious offer at the time. Just a little more of the unnecessary loose lips stuff that happens with PC.

[obiken]

I agree, it works at first, but they are going to have to have a sit down with Sherm on his attack on Bevell.

[RiverDog]

Along the same lines Luke Willson is reportedly not happy that Pete made public comments about a contract offer having been made during the season because willson didn't see it as an official offer or a serious offer at the time. Just a little more of the unnecessary loose lips stuff that happens with PC.

I saw that, and you're right, Pete talks too much. He's always trying to paint the prettiest face he possibly can on any situation and apparently insulted Willson by discussing their contract negotiations in the media and claiming that the Hawks made him a fair offer.

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Luke-Will ... s-51015776

[NorthHawk]

Ariens recently said he's going to have a more physical camp this year.
I wonder if they will be under the spotlight more because of that statement.

[ACES 13]

We lost our #5 pick due to the OTA violation from last spring, and there's a chance we could lose a pick due to not reporting Sherman's injury, some saying as high as a #2.

My understanding is the #5 would be upgraded to the 2nd pick if we are sanctioned.

"According to Mortensen, the proposed penalty would be an escalation of the fifth-round pick the team was docked in September for a violation of offseason practice rules, and could still include fines for both head coach Pete Carroll and the team."
http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/footbal ... 869041.php

[c_hawkbob]

I wouldn't change a thing about Pete's management style, I think it's as directly responsible for the success we've had as it is for any of the complaints in this thread. I'm perfectly OK with the trade off.

[mykc14]

It's the offseason, so why not start out a thread on something controversial to liven things up around here.

I fully acknowledge that Pete's been very successful and that he's without a doubt the best HC that we've had here in the 40 year history of our franchise and is one of the best if not the best defensive minds of his era.

But there's a downside. Ever since his days at USC, he's had this penchant for not paying attention to details or not having enough respect for rules that he may consider to be incidental or unimportant. In the past, his program at USC suffered some of the most severe sanctions issued by the NCAA, his Seahawk teams have players that have been hit with PED violations, and most recently, we have lost one draft pick, our 5th, due to an OTA violation and quite possibly could lose another via the non reporting of Richard Sherman's injury late this season.

This stuff is having a cumulative effect. In a league with such a dynamic game and with parity having created the most competitive game in professional sports, losing two draft picks to Pete or his surrogates inattention to detail is hurting our chances of restocking our roster with talent.

I have to say I don't have a problem with his philosophy either. As far as the punishments in college I don't really look at too much because it has nothing to do with what he is doing with the Hawks and I don't know how a college coach is supposed know about what a booster is giving Reggie Bushs family. Maybe he saw signs and could have looked into it more but instead looked the other way, but we don't know exactly what happened there. It's not like he was overtly cheating during the game or completely violating recruiting rules (the $ bush received occurred after he was on campus)

To me the talk of PEDS violations are becoming a bit laughable as well. We haven't had a player suspended for a PEDS violation in over 3 years. We did have like 6 in a 4 year span before that, although one of those guys actually tested positive when he played for a different team, he was just officially suspended when he was a Hawk (and released before he ever played a down). So to me PED violations are a nonissue. You could actually argue that this is an example of Pete seeing a problem and then completely fixing it.

The OTA violations are a bit of a head scratcher. I am a bit frustrated by the loss of a draft pick, but when a veteran player, who has played for multiple teams, calls it the most low key OTAs he's been a part of and we still get in trouble then it seems like something is up. It could be that the league is watching us a bit closer than other teams given our previous violations, but all Pete can do in those situations is tone it down and by all accounts it seems like he has (at least according to hawk players).

The 2nd round pick isn't even worth talking about because we haven't been punished for it yet, if we will at all.

My only issue with Pete is his Peteball offensive. Playing ultra conservative football. We have a very smart QB and playmakers on offense. Give them a chance to put points on the board. With that being said he has been extremely successful in his stint with the Hawks so I really wouldn't spend much time complaining about that.

[Zorn76]

A Lombardi gives Pete a pass on these other matters, imo.
My deal with Carroll is that he's loyal to a fault in terms of his coaching staff.
I believe the timing would be perfect for a new OC to be in the mix, but that ain't gonna happen.

[Hawktawk]

So how long does the Lombardi pass last? Tom Coughlin won 2 between 2007 and 2011 as a huge underdog both times and was gone 4 years later. Gruden won Tampa Bay its one and only his first year in the building and was gone a few years later.
MOF we got Holmgren because Ron Wolf had never forgiven him for blowing a second consecutive title to Elway(sound familiar?) and was more than happy to let him walk after losing in the playoffs the following year.

As Ive said and we all say love me some PC but is making the playoffs good enough for this team and its fan base now? 3 years ago today we reached the pinnacle and its been slowly slipping ever since. For this fan and I'm sure a lot of players its damn tough to get it all and then not have that feeling again.Something needs to change or its going to slip slide away IMO. I hope to be wrong as always but teams are figuring us out, figuring Russ out, exploiting our defense in critical situations like playoff games.
Hopefully beneath the jovial exterior PC still has the passion and fire and ingenuity. Hanging tough with Bevell is not encouraging though.

[c_hawkbob]

So how long does the Lombardi pass last?

5 years. That's why they call it a 5 year rule.

12. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions. For instance, the Pats could finish 0-80 over the next five years and I wouldn't say a peep. That's just the way it is. You win the Super Bowl, you go on cruise control for five years. Everything else is gravy.

http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?pa ... ons/020227

[RiverDog]

I wouldn't change a thing about Pete's management style, I think it's as directly responsible for the success we've had as it is for any of the complaints in this thread. I'm perfectly OK with the trade off.

I'm not complaining or advocating that Pete change his management style. I am simply pointing out that like most all management styles, his has a downside, and that his failure to take seriously non football rules and procedures, his running of a loose ship and running of his loose lips is one of those downsides.

[c_hawkbob]

And I'm saying I agree that it has a downside but that I'm OK with that. This is a football game, not a warship, if loose lips sink this ship no lives will have been lost and we'll all have had the ride of a lifetime.

[RiverDog]

And I'm saying I agree that it has a downside but that I'm OK with that. This is a football game, not a warship, if loose lips sink this ship no lives will have been lost and we'll all have had the ride of a lifetime.

Agreed.

[ACES 13]

And I'm saying I agree that it has a downside but that I'm OK with that. This is a football game, not a warship, if loose lips sink this ship no lives will have been lost and we'll all have had the ride of a lifetime.

Well said! Pete is loyal to a fault and has proven his style to be very effective. If things begin to slide he'll be able to make necessary changes to right the ship.

I like to look at the big picture and keep perspective. Several players might do the same for the benefit of the "Brotherhood". Fans are spoiled by success and that is no surprise.

Go Hawks!

[Hawktawk]

And I'm saying I agree that it has a downside but that I'm OK with that. This is a football game, not a warship, if loose lips sink this ship no lives will have been lost and we'll all have had the ride of a lifetime.[/quote]

Well put Bob. I like the 5 year rule as well. That puts us within the general consensus by pundits that this team has about 3 years of window to win another championship.

Of course the Pats have had a 16 year window but they have a coach who will trade players in their prime and develop a radically different game plan week to week on both sides of the ball depending on opponent.Its the gold standard in NFL history.

[NorthHawk]

Ian Rappaport is reporting the Seahawks will only get a minor penalty if any at all.
Considering the Steelers and Bell not reporting groin issues, it's probably more common than what we've been led to believe as other teams probably did the same.
Hopefully this is the end of it.

[Agent 86]

Ian Rappaport is reporting the Seahawks will only get a minor penalty if any at all.
Considering the Steelers and Bell not reporting groin issues, it's probably more common than what we've been led to believe as other teams probably did the same.
Hopefully this is the end of it.

To follow up on what NorthHawk said, here is a link from the report from Rappaport. Sounds like a slap on the wrist at best, but no draft pick being taken away.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6660/richard-sherman

[NorthHawk]

As well, he played in the Pro Bowl which probably looked good in the NFL's eyes as he draws attention to it (and money).

[Hawktawk]

Ian is a good reporter but Ill believe it when it is announced. It never should have come to it in the first place.