Geno and free agency

[RiverDog]

His USC QBs who were all drafted fairly high. Carson Palmer was the number one overall pick. Matt Leinart was pick 10. Mark Sanchez was the 5th overall pick. The goal in college is to make the QB look good enough to be highly drafted and he accomplished that.

I honestly don't know what that proves. Anyone that plays QB for a national champion is going to "look good enough" to be drafted highly. That doesn't mean that their coach is a QB guru. Does the fact that Urban Meyer made Tim Tebow "look good enough" to be drafted highly make him a QB guru? I don't hear people lauding Nick Saban as a QB guru for making two QB's on the same team "look good enough" to be drafted highly. Chip Kelly got several of his QB's drafted highly. It doesn't mean anything.

Pete built up Russell Wilson. He got good production from Tarvaris. It was his best year as a QB. Now he's getting amazing production from Geno.

I would say that's a pretty great history of QB development and use.

In 2011, Tavaris Jackson was ranked 20th in total yards, 21st in passer rating, 17th in completion percentage, and had a TD:INT ratio of 14:13. All of those numbers are very close to Jackson's career averages. Do you honestly consider that "good production"?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... asontype/2

In 2010 under Pete's divine guidance, Matt Hasselbeck was ranked 21st in total yards, 21st in completion percentage, 28th in passer rating, and threw for 12 TD's and 17 interceptions. Is that what you consider "good production"?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... g/dir/desc

I don't know what kind of metamorphosis you've gone through in the last couple of weeks that has caused you to think that Pete is some sort of QB magician. Perhaps you've been drinking Hawktawk's Kool-Aid.

I'm not saying that Pete is a bad coach, to the contrary, he's an excellent coach, borderline HOF, one of the best defensive minds of this current century. But he is NOT some sort of quarterback whisperer.

[tarlhawk]

I'm not saying that Pete is a bad coach, to the contrary, he's an excellent coach, borderline HOF, one of the best defensive minds of this current century. But he is NOT some sort of quarterback whisperer.

As a Head Coach your impact on the QB is not often developmental (You have highly paid QB Coaches who have that responsibility). Where Pete shines is getting QB Buy-in with a QB relationship to the Offensive Coordinator. Pete exudes QB confidence which allows a QB with skills to excel. Our QB's have a calm self confidence which Pete enhances by trusting their ability to "go with the play" or audible because of something they see revealed in the defensive alignment presented. Does that make him a "guru" implying he enhances a QB development....no but he gets the best out of a QB skills by giving him the full support via personnel "weapons" and aiding their belief in themselves...big kudos in those departments.

Onward and upwards! Go hawks

[RiverDog]

I'm not saying that Pete is a bad coach, to the contrary, he's an excellent coach, borderline HOF, one of the best defensive minds of this current century. But he is NOT some sort of quarterback whisperer.

As a Head Coach your impact on the QB is not often developmental (You have highly paid QB Coaches who have that responsibility). Where Pete shines is getting QB Buy-in with a QB relationship to the Offensive Coordinator. Pete exudes QB confidence which allows a QB with skills to excel. Our QB's have a calm self confidence which Pete enhances by trusting their ability to "go with the play" or audible because of something they see revealed in the defensive alignment presented. Does that make him a "guru" implying he enhances a QB development....no but he gets the best out of a QB skills by giving him the full support via personnel "weapons" and aiding their belief in themselves...big kudos in those departments.

Onward and upwards! Go hawks

That may or may not be true. "Buy in", "QB relationship to the OC," along with your other observations, are intangibles that can't be measured and are highly opinionated, and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, with you or anyone else.

What I was responding to was the notion that Pete "has a long track record of getting great performances from his QBs", and if we use the commonly accepted tangible measurements to gauge "great QB performances", ie a track record, that is absolutely not the case.

[trents]

I just don't see Pete as any kind of a player development guru, whether it's QBs or defensive players. His success at USC was because he recruited great players in a talent rich So. Cal high school base. His initial success in Seattle was due to having a defense stacked with talent. Thomas, Chancellor, Wags, Browner, Wright . . . and an offense led by a short quarterback with Houdini moves and a big arm who threw maybe the best deep ball in the league to very good receivers like Tate and Baldwin. In between that was the Jets flop.

What Pete shines in is developing team chemistry and esprit de core with younger players. He creates a fun, loosy goosy, freespirit, high energy environment with rock music in the background at practice. He encourages everyone to "be themselves". He is the opposite of old school. It works for awhile but then discipline begins to break down.It happened at USC and it happened in Seattle. Now he's trying to rebuild it again. Have you seen that ESPN documentary that chronicled the rise and fall of the USC dynasty during Pete's tenure there?

Now, having said that, he's probably made some adjustments and learned from his mistakes but those tendencies are there.

[Hawktawk]

I’m accused of cherry picking and I probably do . But when someone wants to impugn a coach for not getting all pro play out of Hass in 2010 ? He inherited a team devoid of talent . Hass was broke down , missed time . What Pete is beyond great at developing confidence in players is game day . He got that dog meat team in the postseason with Charlie Whitehurst and won beastquake with a thrilling offensive performance . The day beast mode was born along with the Pete Carroll era.

I thought back on that game when it all went down with Russ and I was trying to decide which side I was on .

People who don’t want to credit Pete for Russ point out JS had to reportedly convince Pete to take him in the 3rd round .
But Pete picked up the phone to tell mr Allen he just paid 20 million for a backup . Pete did something most head coaches in this league wouldn’t do . They would start the FA veteran QB and sit the short rookie on the bench . As has been pointed out Pete stood by him through some very shaky performances early on too .

Russ may never have started with another franchise , sure wouldn’t have had the LOB . Probably never gotten to a Super Bowl . If it’s fair to say Geno wouldn’t have success anywhere else I think the same can be said for Russ . Especially now .
I like and respect Pete as a coach twice as much as a year ago . After that stretch of Russ playing with one hand I was ready to flush it all . I think Jodi was too . Glad she didn’t .

[RiverDog]

I just don't see Pete as any kind of a player development guru, whether it's QBs or defensive players. His success at USC was because he recruited great players in a talent rich So. Cal high school base. His initial success in Seattle was due to having a defense stacked with talent. Thomas, Chancellor, Wags, Browner, Wright . . . and an offense led by a short quarterback with Houdini moves and a big arm who threw maybe the best deep ball in the league to very good receivers like Tate and Baldwin. In between that was the Jets flop.

What Pete shines in is developing team chemistry and esprit de core with younger players. He creates a fun, loosy goosy, freespirit, high energy environment with rock music in the background at practice. He encourages everyone to "be themselves". He is the opposite of old school. It works for awhile but then discipline begins to break down.It happened at USC and it happened in Seattle. Now he's trying to rebuild it again. Have you seen that ESPN documentary that chronicled the rise and fall of the USC dynasty during Pete's tenure there?

Now, having said that, he's probably made some adjustments and learned from his mistakes but those tendencies are there.

What Pete has done is extraordinary. Not very many successful college head coaches have gone on to have success head coaching careers in the NFL, the latest example being Urban Meyer but also includes Nick Saban, Bobby Petrino, Dennis Erickson, Lou Holtz, and Steve Spurrier, just to name a few. The only recent example of a successful college coach AND NFL head coach that I can think of is Jim Hairball.

Pete did a fabulous job building a champion, but he couldn't sustain it, and it's my opinion that some of those attributes that you spoke of, the rather undisciplined, let the inmates run the asylum approach to managing an organization, prevented him from keeping the team together. The recent cheap shots that some former players have taken at Russell is evidence that supports the contention that he pampered Russ, wouldn't criticize him in front of the team like he would with others, and resulted in the "not black enough" garbage that came out of the locker room and divided the team. I've never seen a HOF player flip off his HC as he was being carted off the field, but that's what ET did. It's one of the reasons why I advocated Pete's dismissal at the end of last season.

This season has changed my opinion on Pete. I absolutely loved our draft as it was a clear departure of those in the past. He didn't trade away picks prior to it, didn't trade down during it, didn't make any reaches, actually drafted some offensive linemen, and thanks to the Russell trade, has stockpiled some significant capital for the future. The fact that Geno has done so well this season and Russell's face plant in Denver is clear evidence that our problems had more to do with the quarterback than it did the coach. So, although I wouldn't say that I'm back on the Pete bandwagon, I'm no longer calling for his head, either.

[RiverDog]

I’m accused of cherry picking and I probably do . But when someone wants to impugn a coach for not getting all pro play out of Hass in 2010 ? He inherited a team devoid of talent . Hass was broke down , missed time.

I didn't derided Pete for not getting All Pro play out of Hass. I was responding to a claim that Pete had always gotten the most out of his quarterbacks, and that clearly wasn't the case in 2010 and 2011, and I used Hass and TJack as examples. I could have gone back to Pete's days at New England and used Drew Bledsoe as an example if you want to disqualify Hass from the discussion. Bledsoe's worst 2 consecutive seasons in his career was in 1998 and 1999 with Pete as his head coach. In his final season with Pete, Bledsoe threw more interceptions than he did TD passes.

[Hawktawk]

I’m accused of cherry picking and I probably do . But when someone wants to impugn a coach for not getting all pro play out of Hass in 2010 ? He inherited a team devoid of talent . Hass was broke down , missed time.

I didn't derided Pete for not getting All Pro play out of Hass. I was responding to a claim that Pete had always gotten the most out of his quarterbacks, and that clearly wasn't the case in 2010 and 2011, and I used Hass and TJack as examples. I could have gone back to Pete's days at Buffalo and used Drew Bledsoe as an example if you want to disqualify Hass from the discussion. Bledsoe's worst 2 consecutive seasons in his career was in 1998 and 1999 with Pete as his head coach.[/quote]


“Most” isn’t “ best “ . We got to the divisional in 2010 with Hass who was playing his last season as a starter . He had missed much of the previous season with injury and battled a torn glute down the stretch that caused him to miss games including the season finale play in vs the Rams . Hass was shot . Our team sucked .

Pete coached up Whitehurst to win . Then the WC brown bag 7-9 14 point dogs vs the Saints . Beat quake . Greatest motivation and coaching job I’ve see.
Where was Bledsoe in his career ? I know Belichick sat him . Pete won a playoff game playing a backup there .

. Pete doesn’t always have the best but he gets the most out of them . I think it’s what Asea meant and I agree .

As for the Geno Pete who made who debate I heard a quote from Pete “ he was ready the day he walked in the door . There was never a question but we had an established starter.”
Pete being humble ? For sure Geno wouldn’t be starting elsewhere without him . Next year he will be starting here or elsewhere .

[RiverDog]

“Most” isn’t “ best “ . We got to the divisional in 2010 with Hass who was playing his last season as a starter . He had missed much of the previous season with injury and battled a torn glute down the stretch that caused him to miss games including the season finale play in vs the Rams . Hass was shot . Our team sucked .

Pete coached up Whitehurst to win . Then the WC brown bag 7-9 14 point dogs vs the Saints . Beat quake . Greatest motivation and coaching job I’ve see.
Where was Bledsoe in his career ? I know Belichick sat him . Pete won a playoff game playing a backup there .

. Pete doesn’t always have the best but he gets the most out of them . I think it’s what Asea meant and I agree .

As for the Geno Pete who made who debate I heard a quote from Pete “ he was ready the day he walked in the door . There was never a question but we had an established starter.”
Pete being humble ? For sure Geno wouldn’t be starting elsewhere without him . Next year he will be starting here or elsewhere .

Like I said, I'm not going down that subjective, highly opinionated rabbit hole with you. All I said was that there is no evidence of a "long track record of (Pete) getting great performances from his QBs", and I'll leave it at that.

[Hawktawk]

Well I like his qb acumen last 11 years fine . He got a lot too loose with the reins on the qb but ship righted now . Nobody’s perfect . It’s a hell of a ride we’ve been on and I think we’re going on another run here if not this year then next .

[Aseahawkfan]

In 2011, Tavaris Jackson was ranked 20th in total yards, 21st in passer rating, 17th in completion percentage, and had a TD:INT ratio of 14:13. All of those numbers are very close to Jackson's career averages. Do you honestly consider that "good production"?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... asontype/2

In 2010 under Pete's divine guidance, Matt Hasselbeck was ranked 21st in total yards, 21st in completion percentage, 28th in passer rating, and threw for 12 TD's and 17 interceptions. Is that what you consider "good production"?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... g/dir/desc

I don't know what kind of metamorphosis you've gone through in the last couple of weeks that has caused you to think that Pete is some sort of QB magician. Perhaps you've been drinking Hawktawk's Kool-Aid.

I'm not saying that Pete is a bad coach, to the contrary, he's an excellent coach, borderline HOF, one of the best defensive minds of this current century. But he is NOT some sort of quarterback whisperer.

It was still the best year of Tarvaris's career. Hasselbeck was on the end of his career and he still got us to a playoff game and win.

Pete isn't a QB whisperer as I don't believe in this. Pete knows how to get the best out of his players and it's rare that a player will go to another team and do better. I don't think that many coaches know how to do that and that is why I don't agree Geno can go to any team and do what he did.

Pete knows how to build confidence and set players up to succeed. He knows how to win with crap players about as well as you can do for any coach not named Bill B.

I highly disagree with the idea we got lucky with Geno and he would have done the same thing with any other coach. I think Pete very much had a large hand in setting Geno up for success and only a few other coaches in the NFL could pull this off maybe.

[Hawktawk]

Geno brought skills above average and as Pete said he walked in the door at VMac ready to start but they already had a starter . I think the truths in the middle . I think with Russ and now Geno Pete identified something nobody else did and gave the dudes the ball but both men had to work their ass off to get ready for the opportunity . Certainly in Genos case there was no market other than backup . With Russ it isn’t knowable how his career would have gone had he been drafted behind an established starter or bad organization. But Pete boosted both those guys . Worked out real good with the first one . So far so good on this one .

[Aseahawkfan]

I feel like if you have any talent and the drive to develop it, Pete will help you maximize it.

Same as she did with Browner, Jarran Reed, Frank Clark, and so many other players that had their best years here, then went somewhere else and fell off. Pete has made a lot of players from college and in the NFL a lot of money by bringing out the best in them. Even guys like Jermaine Kearse or Byron Maxwell who didn't do much after leaving. Pete is a great motivator.

[RiverDog]

In 2011, Tavaris Jackson was ranked 20th in total yards, 21st in passer rating, 17th in completion percentage, and had a TD:INT ratio of 14:13. All of those numbers are very close to Jackson's career averages. Do you honestly consider that "good production"?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... asontype/2

In 2010 under Pete's divine guidance, Matt Hasselbeck was ranked 21st in total yards, 21st in completion percentage, 28th in passer rating, and threw for 12 TD's and 17 interceptions. Is that what you consider "good production"?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... g/dir/desc

I don't know what kind of metamorphosis you've gone through in the last couple of weeks that has caused you to think that Pete is some sort of QB magician. Perhaps you've been drinking Hawktawk's Kool-Aid.

I'm not saying that Pete is a bad coach, to the contrary, he's an excellent coach, borderline HOF, one of the best defensive minds of this current century. But he is NOT some sort of quarterback whisperer.

It was still the best year of Tarvaris's career.

No, it wasn't. TJack's completion percentage in 2011 was 60.2%. That's barely better than his 59.6% career mark, not enough to argue about. In 2011, he threw 14 TD's and 13 INT's, a slightly worse ratio (1.08) than his career ratio of 39 TD to 35 INT's (1.14). His passer rating in 2011 was 79.2, career 78.5, a push. In 2011, his W/L record as a starter was 7-7, his career record 17-17. TJack's performance in 2011, his only season as a full time starter, was virtually identical to his career numbers, with some being barely above, others barely below. Pete did nothing to elevate his play, at least not anything that shows up in "the track record" that can be measured.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ckTa00.htm

Hasselbeck was on the end of his career and he still got us to a playoff game and win.

You forget that Hass had led us to the playoffs in 5 other seasons before Pete got here and posted a .500 w/l playoff record, exactly what he did in 2010 (1-1). In 2010 his regular season W/L record was 7-7, his career W/L 10 games above .500 His performance in 2010 was nothing novel that Pete can be credited for elevating.

I highly disagree with the idea we got lucky with Geno and he would have done the same thing with any other coach. I think Pete very much had a large hand in setting Geno up for success and only a few other coaches in the NFL could pull this off maybe.

I'm a little closer to agreeing with you as far as it goes with Geno as there is substantial evidence of a dramatic turnaround, and unless he does a huge face plant in his last 5 games, he'll have by far the best year in his career. How much credit we can give Pete is debatable and I might take issue with your statement that few other coaches could pull it off, but at least there's some factual information that can be relied on to support your argument. But please, stop drinking HT's fan boy flavored Kool-Aid! Pete's overall track record with quarterbacks is NOT that impressive.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm a little closer to agreeing with you as far as it goes with Geno as there is substantial evidence of a dramatic turnaround, and unless he does a huge face plant in his last 5 games, he'll have by far the best year in his career. How much credit we can give Pete is debatable and I might take issue with your statement that few other coaches could pull it off, but at least there's some factual information that can be relied on to support your argument. But please, stop drinking HT's fan boy flavored Kool-Aid! Pete's overall track record with quarterbacks is NOT that impressive.

It was Tarvaris's best year.

Why would you think I forgot Hass led us to five playoff seasons? I watched it, but Pete still got him to elevate his play in the playoffs. Everyone wrote us off in that playoff game, but we won. If you look at the playoff win, it was one of Hasselbeck's best playoff performances as a QB. He went 22- 35. Threw 4 Tds to 1 int. And had a 113 rating. It was Hasselbecks most productive playoff game. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HassMa00/gamelog/post/

If you go back to his college years and look at Russell, Pete's done well with QBs. You want to discount his college years, but in college getting QBs to play at a high enough level to get drafted high is what a great college coaches do. When Pete was there, the QBs he developed were drafted high. And the QBs not doing well playing for someone else is exactly what I'm talking about: Pete gets the best out of players with very few exceptions.

You can point not just to QBs, but players in general at a variety of positions. Pete gets a lot out of players, more than most coaches. As Geno puts it, "Pete can really coach some ball."

It's not fanboying to point out what Pete does with players. He brings the best out of them and gets them to produce. It's why he's been one of the best NFL coaches over the past 12 years. And was one of the best college coaches when he was at USC. Pete is a great motivator of players. There is plenty of proof that is the case beyond just QBs.

There is no HT kool-aid to drink. The proof is in the stats and years of statistics and performances. Pete does a great job bringing the best out of players. Is it 100 percent? Nope. It isn't with any coach. But does Pete have a long track record of getting the best performances out of players why they are in Seattle? Yep. Usually players he drafts, but he also gets a lot out of some older or forgotten players as well. Geno is another example of a player Pete recovered like Lynch or Chris Clemons.

[RiverDog]

I'm a little closer to agreeing with you as far as it goes with Geno as there is substantial evidence of a dramatic turnaround, and unless he does a huge face plant in his last 5 games, he'll have by far the best year in his career. How much credit we can give Pete is debatable and I might take issue with your statement that few other coaches could pull it off, but at least there's some factual information that can be relied on to support your argument. But please, stop drinking HT's fan boy flavored Kool-Aid! Pete's overall track record with quarterbacks is NOT that impressive.

It was Tarvaris's best year.

In what way? It wasn't statistically and he didn't lead us to the playoffs or a winning record. You don't have a leg to stand on, my friend.

Everyone wrote us off in that playoff game, but we won. If you look at the playoff win, it was one of Hasselbeck's best playoff performances as a QB. He went 22- 35. Threw 4 Tds to 1 int. And had a 113 rating. It was Hasselbecks most productive playoff game. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HassMa00/gamelog/post/

One of his best games, for sure. Of course, you don't want to talk about the next playoff game that we lost by two scores to the Bears in large part because Hasselbeck was just 26-46 and our offense was just 3-14 on third down leading to a huge disparity in TOP, something that HT would go absolutely ballistic if that had been Russell.

It's not fanboying to point what Pete does with players.

It's fan boy when you ignore facts and start using highly subjective and opinionated arguments to support your narrative.

He (Pete) brings the best out of them and gets them to produce. It's why he's been one of the best NFL coaches over the past 12 years. And was one of the best college coaches when he was at USC. Pete is a great motivator of players. There is plenty of proof that is the case beyond just QBs.

I agree with you in general. My point is strictly regarding your statement about Pete having a great track record of elevating quarterback's performance. There is nothing factual to support such a claim.

[Old but Slow]

If Pete and the team believed from the beginning that they had something in Geno, why did they not sign him to a longer contract to begin with?

[Aseahawkfan]

If Pete and the team believed from the beginning that they had something in Geno, why did they not sign him to a longer contract to begin with?

No one thought Geno would play like this except HT and I guess Geno. Geno's high level of play is a surprise.

My point is that I doubt it happens anywhere else myself and I don't think many coaches could get Geno to play at this level. It's the right coach at the right time with the right players. I doubt it's something that can be emulated elsewhere.

It's more like Geno got lucky landing in an ideal situation for him to bloom again than we got lucky that Geno is playing so well. Same as Russ was lucky to land with a coach like Carroll who thinks outside the box and doesn't mind trusting the team with an unconventional sized QB and putting him in a position to shine by supporting the scramble offense and going deep back in NFL history to compare him to Crazy Legs Fran Tarkenton. I don't think there are many coaches with Pete's depth of NFL knowledge to know how to put so many different players in a position to succeed at a high level.

[Aseahawkfan]

In what way? It wasn't statistically and he didn't lead us to the playoffs or a winning record. You don't have a leg to stand on, my friend.

TDs, yards, games played. It was his first year as a starter and Pete got the most out of him compared to his other coaches.

I said it was his best year and it was his best year. You're acting like I said it was some kind of high bar to jump over and it wasn't. But he got the most out of Tarvaris in his career.

One of his best games, for sure. Of course, you don't want to talk about the next playoff game that we lost by two scores to the Bears in large part because Hasselbeck was just 26-46 and our offense was just 3-14 on third down leading to a huge disparity in TOP, something that HT would go absolutely ballistic if that had been Russell.

Hass still threw for 3 Tds and 0 ints. It was still one of his better playoff games. Given the quality of the team around him, a heroic effort on the road where we've never won a playoff game in our team history against a high ranked Bears defense in their house.

It's fan boy when you ignore facts and start using highly subjective and opinionated arguments to support your narrative.

You are the one ignoring the facts. I have clearly shown you dating back to college that Pete gets quality performances out of his QBs getting three of the QBs he developed in college drafted in the top 10. I also showed you how he got Hass's best playoff performance as a QB on an arguably much worse team than Hass had played on prior even though he played for a QB guru like Mike Holmgren. He got the most production out of Tarvaris Jackson any coach had gotten out of him in hi career. He turned an undersized QB taken in the 3rd round into a 9 time Pro Bowl QB who won a Super Bowl and went to another one. Now he's taken a QB tossed on the garbage heap into a QB that might end up with an MVP vote.

So what are the facts I'm missing? You are completely ignoring what Pete did in college. You're ignoring what Pete did with Russ. You're ignoring that Pete got Matt's best playoff performance out of him.

I'd say you're the one ignoring the facts. That is that Pete gets a lot out of players including Qbs.

Your problem seems to be you're thinking I'm saying "Pete's a QB whisperer" and what I'm saying is "Pete's a player whisperer." I don't think many coaches in the league are. I don't think we got lucky with Geno. I think Geno got lucky playing for Pete and being put in a position with two stud receivers, a good TE group, and two rookie tackles playing above what we've seen from rookie tackles playing with a head coach that knows how to put players in a position to get the most out of them.

Pete's been doing this for years, not just this year and not just with Geno. But since his college days and on into this second stint as an NFL head coach.

I agree with you in general. My point is strictly regarding your statement about Pete having a great track record of elevating quarterback's performance. There is nothing factual to support such a claim.

Pete's track record with QBS in college is amazing.

Pete's track record with NFL QBs in his second stint is limited due to finding a franchise QB that played for him for ten years. Even with the limited sample size, you can see Pete has gotten a lot out of them.

Hass: Best playoff performance of his career. Even the Chicago game was a good performance by Hass trying to carry the team in the twilight of his career.

Tarvaris: Most productive year of Tarvaris's career.

Russell: His career in Seattle speaks for itself.

Geno: Geno is playing at a level no one in the league thought he could play at. Pete once again put him through the fires of competition and went with Geno when many of us would have preferred to see the former Denver guy play. Pete turned out to be right again on that call.

Luck is not reproducible. What Pete is doing is putting the players in the best position to produce and excel and getting higher performances than are usual and in Russ and Geno's case, much, much higher than expected.

Pete has a method that works for getting whatever you can get out of talent at a given time. It isn't luck. It's a method for maximizing player performance. When it works with a highly talented player, it works very, very well.

[Hawktawk]

If Pete and the team believed from the beginning that they had something in Geno, why did they not sign him to a longer contract to begin with?

Because they didn’t have to . Nobody else wanted him . They started him after keeping him on the roster 3 years with a zillion other guys they could have brought in .

I saw something in him after he finished a 98 yard seemingly effortless drive against a defense Russ soiled himself facing last 2 years and followed it up with 2 more drives .

Unfortunately on the 3rd posession Lockett was tripped on a timing route for a pick . It was counted as the first fail on a game winning drive for Geno in Seattle. That despite 141 yards passing , 23 rushing and 10 points in a game we trailed 10-7 after Russ got hurt late in the third .
Been on board ever since . But I won’t gloat.I didn’t think he was worth a damn till he came in the game .

Lots of smart analysts on this forum are getting up to speed and seeing what’s going on. We really have a great coach , better than I thought a year ago . We really seem to have Rich Gannon at qb
There’s ball to play and if they sputter it’s another conversation. We lose out Geno loses out . I think he needs to make the playoffs short of a situation where he plays great and can’t overcome the defense . That’s already happened with saints and raiders . We don’t know what’s best yet.
I’m leaning if he keeps playing like this
( last week targeting past the sticks)
16-20
3 TDs
276 yards
158.3 perfect passer rating .

Lots of those were right at Jalen Ramsey
I’d sign this guy all day long unless he dumps or it’s determined the next Mahomes etc is sitting there when we pick . I’m not burning draft capital to move to 1 either . Not for a qb. It’s not a current issue of need at all .

[trents]

I’m not burning draft capital to move to 1 either . Not for a qb. It’s not a current issue of need at all .

We can certainly agree on that. We have too many needs elsewhere, mainly, defensive line.

[RiverDog]

If Pete and the team believed from the beginning that they had something in Geno, why did they not sign him to a longer contract to begin with?

Because they didn’t have to . Nobody else wanted him . They started him after keeping him on the roster 3 years with a zillion other guys they could have brought in .

I saw something in him after he finished a 98 yard seemingly effortless drive against a defense Russ soiled himself facing last 2 years and followed it up with 2 more drives .

Unfortunately on the 3rd posession Lockett was tripped on a timing route for a pick . It was counted as the first fail on a game winning drive for Geno in Seattle. That despite 141 yards passing , 23 rushing and 10 points in a game we trailed 10-7 after Russ got hurt late in the third .
Been on board ever since . But I won’t gloat.I didn’t think he was worth a damn till he came in the game .

Lots of smart analysts on this forum are getting up to speed and seeing what’s going on. We really have a great coach , better than I thought a year ago . We really seem to have Rich Gannon at qb
There’s ball to play and if they sputter it’s another conversation. We lose out Geno loses out . I think he needs to make the playoffs short of a situation where he plays great and can’t overcome the defense . That’s already happened with saints and raiders . We don’t know what’s best yet.
I’m leaning if he keeps playing like this
( last week targeting past the sticks)
16-20
3 TDs
276 yards
158.3 perfect passer rating .

Lots of those were right at Jalen Ramsey
I’d sign this guy all day long unless he dumps or it’s determined the next Mahomes etc is sitting there when we pick . I’m not burning draft capital to move to 1 either . Not for a qb. It’s not a current issue of need at all .

I'm not sure of the lag time on resigning Geno was due simply to the fact that no one else wanted him although that was obviously part of it. There were a lot of rumors floating around back then, Baker Mayfield, Jimmy G., and of course, there was the possibility that we might have drafted a QB. Who knows why it took them so long. But ObS's point is valid. If Pete and JS were that confident about Geno's ability, they would have signed him to a longer contract rather than this one year 'prove it' deal.

I haven't seen a QB in this draft that I'd want to move up to take in the first round. Those moves never seem to work out. It didn't work with Trey Lance, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, or Johnny Football. If one is available when we pick, then fine. But we're not in desperation mode. I like the idea of putting up a 'for sale' sign on the pick.

[Hawktawk]

quote="Old but Slow"]If Pete and the team believed from the beginning that they had something in Geno, why did they not sign him to a longer contract to begin with?[/quote]

Because they didn’t have to . Nobody else wanted him . They started him after keeping him on the roster 3 years with a zillion other guys they could have brought in .

I saw something in him after he finished a 98 yard seemingly effortless drive against a defense Russ soiled himself facing last 2 years and followed it up with 2 more drives .

Unfortunately on the 3rd posession Lockett was tripped on a timing route for a pick . It was counted as the first fail on a game winning drive for Geno in Seattle. That despite 141 yards passing , 23 rushing and 10 points in a game we trailed 10-7 after Russ got hurt late in the third .
Been on board ever since . But I won’t gloat.I didn’t think he was worth a damn till he came in the game .

Lots of smart analysts on this forum are getting up to speed and seeing what’s going on. We really have a great coach , better than I thought a year ago . We really seem to have Rich Gannon at qb
There’s ball to play and if they sputter it’s another conversation. We lose out Geno loses out . I think he needs to make the playoffs short of a situation where he plays great and can’t overcome the defense . That’s already happened with saints and raiders . We don’t know what’s best yet.
I’m leaning if he keeps playing like this
( last week targeting past the sticks)
16-20
3 TDs
276 yards
158.3 perfect passer rating .

Lots of those were right at Jalen Ramsey
I’d sign this guy all day long unless he dumps or it’s determined the next Mahomes etc is sitting there when we pick . I’m not burning draft capital to move to 1 either . Not for a qb. It’s not a current issue of need at all .

I'm not sure of the lag time on resigning Geno was due simply to the fact that no one else wanted him although that was obviously part of it. There were a lot of rumors floating around back then, Baker Mayfield, Jimmy G., and of course, there was the possibility that we might have drafted a QB. Who knows why it took them so long. But ObS's point is valid. If Pete and JS were that confident about Geno's ability, they would have signed him to a longer contract rather than this one year 'prove it' deal.

I haven't seen a QB in this draft that I'd want to move up to take in the first round. Those moves never seem to work out. It didn't work with Trey Lance, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, or Johnny Football. If one is available when we pick, then fine. But we're not in desperation mode. I like the idea of putting up a 'for sale' sign on the pick.[/quote]


Pete believed in Geno . He approved of trading Jesus . Pete only traded Jesus because he thought Geno could win or he wouldn’t have done it nor would Jon . They knew what they had just like old hawktawk so they pulled the trigger. It’s better then Herschel Walker imo. We hit it out if the park again .
.

[NorthHawk]

You’re reading something into it that’s not true.
If in fact he was all in on Geno he wouldn’t have risked losing him in FA.
That they waited and talked up Lock then never stated Geno was the starter but instead said the competition continues
says all you need to know about how Pete viewed the QB situation and Geno in particular.

You can want to move on from a player without having a successor in place. Pete did that already when they traded Unger
for Graham and never found a competent replacement.

[Hawktawk]

You’re reading something into it that’s not true.
If in fact he was all in on Geno he wouldn’t have risked losing him in FA.
That they waited and talked up Lock then never stated Geno was the starter but instead said the competition continues
says all you need to know about how Pete viewed the QB situation and Geno in particular.

You can want to move on from a player without having a successor in place. Pete did that already when they traded Unger
for Graham and never found a competent replacement.

Do people even read what I write ? Geno HELD OUT. Geno had a contract offer on the table from day one . Pete said “ we hope Geno will take advantage of this opportunity “ basically pleading with Geno to sign . He eventually did but Pete made it clear he wanted Geno back even within days of his arrest “ all that stuff will be dealt with before training camp “
Pete wanted Geno . He wanted Drew . He picked the winner and pretty much everyone said he was an idiot . Not everyone .

As for Unger can we stop ? Was he an all pro ? We made a trade to help Russ . I actually heard Huard and Salk discussing the Graham trade . It was made to help Russ in the red zone . Russ and Graham were buddies and lots of the other players couldn’t stand the guy .

But Unger this and Unger that . How many games did we win after the guy was done . Beat Pete over the head some more over a trade from 7 years ago
Pete and John are superior personnel managers . Not perfect .

[Aseahawkfan]

Do people even read what I write ? Geno HELD OUT. Geno had a contract offer on the table from day one . Pete said “ we hope Geno will take advantage of this opportunity “ basically pleading with Geno to sign . He eventually did but Pete made it clear he wanted Geno back even within days of his arrest “ all that stuff will be dealt with before training camp “
Pete wanted Geno . He wanted Drew . He picked the winner and pretty much everyone said he was an idiot . Not everyone .

As for Unger can we stop ? Was he an all pro ? We made a trade to help Russ . I actually heard Huard and Salk discussing the Graham trade . It was made to help Russ in the red zone . Russ and Graham were buddies and lots of the other players couldn’t stand the guy .

But Unger this and Unger that . How many games did we win after the guy was done . Beat Pete over the head some more over a trade from 7 years ago
Pete and John are superior personnel managers . Not perfect .

Why do you make this crap up trying to rewrite everything like it was all Russ?

Pete wanted Graham. He talked Graham up before we traded for him. Same as Pete wanted Jamal. And Pete wanted Marshawn. And he wanted Percy. Pete looks at players like that and thinks they'll look great over here. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes not. Pete wanted Graham. Talked him up.

Pete's philosophy has always been run to get yards and throw to score. Pete had been looking for a tall red zone threat before Russ even arrived. It's all well-documented to all of us that remember. Pete and John had drafted multipole tall receivers over the years with athletic upside because Pete wanted a tall athletic receiver or TE to improve the red zone production.

Big issue some of us had with the Graham trade is for Seattle a TE that can block and pass is what works best in Pete's offense and Graham could not block very well. He did catch quite a few TDs like Pete wanted.

Pete tried to find that tall red zone threat WR since back when he signed Sidney Rice, long before Russell even arrived.

Please stop trying to revise history to make it seem like it was all Russ. Very few people that paid attention to Pete from day one are buying it. I have a long memory and I've read a ton of Pete's ideas of how he wants to do things. And Graham and Percy and Jamal and Marshawn are all Pete. Russ may have had some influence later on, but Russ is gone because Pete runs the show the way he wants to run the show. Always has, always will...until he retires.